TILT WHEEL SWAP

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ayatollah of rock&rol
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TILT WHEEL SWAP

Post by ayatollah of rock&rol »

IM A NEWBY TO THIS SITE ,BUT IVE BEEN DRIVIN ONE SLICK OR ANOTHER FOR OVER 25 YEARS .I RECENTLY BOUGHT A 1962 UNI 4X4 AND IM PLANNING ON A FEW MODS.TILT WHEEL FOR STARTERS.IM NOT SURE IF ITS EVEN DOABLE .ANYONE OUT THERE WITH EXPERIANCE IN THIS TYPE OF SWAP? ALSO FRONT POWER DISC BRAKES.AND POWER STEERING.ANY HELP OR ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT.
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Comet
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Post by Comet »

Welcome! Rare uni 4x4, right on! Yes, I have seen tilt cols. in these, but not on a 4x4. I'm sure it can be done, however. I don't know anything about the steering boxes on the early 4x4s
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Brion71
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Post by Brion71 »

you can always as Ididit, they seem to know all about tilt columns. :lol:


http://www.ididitinc.com

Hopefully this helps
Brion.
_______________
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MadMaxetc
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Post by MadMaxetc »

4x4 are easier than 2x4s cuz the stearing box is in front of the axle (if I remember right)

I am not sure what columns would work. you would probly have to do your own mount and linkage but it shouldn't be that bad.
Dan
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Garbz

Post by Garbz »

Welcome to the Insanity >lol

The 4x4 uses a Gemmer box that has an integral shaft, meaning that the shaft and box are one piece when assembled from the box to the steering wheel.

Steering boxes on slick 4x4s do not move in front of the axle untill the 1966 F100, its the only one, all others use the standard Gemmer integral box mountsd behind the axle.

I have a tilt installed on "Christine" which has a 64 integral box. I modified it to accept the 1988 F250 tilt and cruize collum. I havent figgured out yet on how to post images in the poosts so look in my album for some added pictures.

I made a new mount for the dash and a floor attachment to keep it in place.

For Disc brakes on the 62 axle? Not able to be done with any conversion parts the i am currently aware of. Easiest is to swap out a later model 44 or 60 with discs.

Power steering can be accomplished in the same manner as 2 wheel drives as the box is in the same location. A toy box swap from a mid 80 toy 4x4.

None of these mods are a drop in and go deal.

As for Ididit they insist the world needs a chevrolet collum connector in every vehicle even fords...

Garbz


[/img]
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mikecarson
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Post by mikecarson »

Here it is, Garbz, took it from the MAC site.

[albumimg]296[/albumimg]
Mike C
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Johnny Canuck
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Post by Johnny Canuck »

Welcome to The slick site to the man with the uni 4x4 :wink:

Another way , maybe, to get what you are looking for, is to swap out a frame from a 73-79, change the cab mount locations, and alter the wheelbase.

not only will you get power steering, but , if you pick the right frame, you get disc brakes too. And probably a better ride and easier parts availability.

If you ask CustomCab4X4, a member here, you will find out this is not an easy swap,he's been at his for some time now. But it does get you some desirable features, since your uni is riding on a swapped frame already.

JC
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William-in-St. George
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4x4 Power Steering

Post by William-in-St. George »

A couple of years ago I saw a 4x4 uni at a local tire shop. Truck was really nice driver so I stopped and looked it over for more than an hour. This truck turned out to be a short uni on a 79 4x4 frame. It had a small block with C4 PS. PDB and AC. Honestly the truck was so nice that at first glance I thought it was stock. Having spent considerable time going over the uni conversion I believe it will be much simpler to move your uni over to a later frame and power train. You will solve all the problems associated with 40 year old technology in one project. The front floor pans from 73-79 are a close fit from the firewall to under the seat and can be moved to the early cabs. The rear cab mounts on the uni are close enough fit to the later frames. I haven't done this project but it is on my "Earls list". Imagine a nice mild 460/C6 hidden in a stock appearing uni with all the options. Heck you could even put a plow on it! IMHO!
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FORDBOYpete
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Post by FORDBOYpete »

Garbz, Didn't I read that same great answer to that same question some other place on the WWW, or is there an echo on the WEB today? :lol:

I don't believe they understand the difference between "Drop In & Bolt up" or creative engineering & fabrication of what needs to be done. Also Gemmer, or Ross one piece shaft technology is not understood. :shock:

I've tried to explain to another wannabe, that to put a 460 in a 4by it needs to sit higher on aftermarket engine stands & brackets, plus takes a REAR SUMP oil pan because of the rear facing "snout" on the front Diffy.

I tend to forget folks don't have, or have access to the tools, equipment, knowledge or skills to Engineer & Fab like some of us do. It's just how it is.
I also used to get cranked up over the Builders vs Buyers in the Special Interest Automotive Field. It took me a while to realize some folks cannot and will never scratch build, or major rebuild anything. BUT there's a place for them because their interest & participation help grow the hobby and spread the fascination among the masses, or so it would seem.

After it's all washed & dried tho'. . . . I gotta agree with JC and William the way to kick pre 65 Slicks into the 21st century is with a frame retro or upgrade change. FWIW, and IMHO it's far easier to add body mount outriggers & points on newer chassis than to fabricate special doo-dads & thingamajigs
to upgrade an older one. Of coures Skip & the Single I-Beam crowd will disagree with that presumption I suppose. . . . . :roll:

But it is easier if the objective is new tech & creature comfort. . . .

Okay here's the soap box back and THANX Y'ALL. . . . . :lol:

FBp 8)
Change is the Only Constant
Garbz

Post by Garbz »

Thanks Mike

Pete I put that in the first line but removed it. (the other WWW) LOL

A uni will be a bitch to put on a later frame. Later frames with the exception pre 72 or the "Highboy" will interfere with the WIDER inner wheel tubs on a uni, Not a problem but will take some additional stiffining to hold the chassis and body together.

I assumed the uni 4x4 is just an added on like i have seen in the past.

Can you post a picture of your steering colluum. It tells the entire story of a factory vs cobbled uni.

Garbz
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Post by ICEMAN6166 »

either way a 4x4 conversion is work.i have done several, many were 67-72 style.
with different cab/frame years the mounts and the steering column hole are the bigest things to deal with.
i was and still am contemplating a uni 4x4, on a highboy frame.since my uni is already cut in half, at the roof posts close to the dash and all the way across behing the seat, leaving a bed and roof piece i thought about getting a 65 0r 66 cab, and grafting it to the uni.of course the roof cut would change to above the rear window but this gets the higher roof and the floor becomes an easy bolt on to the later frame, as well as the steering column being correct.sadly, the stepwells would be gone.

i have pics of the stuff i had to do to put a 65 f350 on a later 4x4 frame.some of it i really dont care for but it had to be done to get it correct.
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Comet
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Post by Comet »

Guys, do you need to go all the way to a frame swap on this? Seems to me you could just do an axle swap from a '78 or later and bring over the steering box and column with it and get tilt, disc brakes and power steering in one fell swoop. There would likely be some frame fabrication, but in looking at my '61 and a '78 F250 axle I have it wouldn't be too major. That was just eye balling it though and the front cross member may need some re locating, but I think it could be done fairly easily.
In any event, it might be worth checking into as it's a lot less work than an entire frame swap. The only other issue I am not sure about is whether the early 4x4s have a driver's side drop on the diff like the later model Fords do (sorry, I should know that, but I don't see too many of these).
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FORDBOYpete
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Post by FORDBOYpete »

Comet,
It's far from being that simple. . . .Here is frames 101. :wink:

FWIW the frame differences between a 64 and a 65 are worlds apart, especially when you get into the frame configuration of the 65-79 4X2. 4X4 frames continue to use the 57-64 4X2 & 4X4 configuration which was the same back in those days.
The difference is the early 4X2 is use a "one piece" steering shaft & gear box assy with a pitman arm which travels forward & rearward, moving a draglink which moves a tierod. The tierod moves the right wheel in unison with the left one.
The 65 & up 4X2 use a two piece shaft with a rag joint. The 2nd piece is a stub shaft out of Strg gear box. In this, pitman arms sweep left to right or across the frame. They engage a center link which moves both wheels in unison.
The key difference is the rag joint in the later design allows substitution of the steering column and a tilt column can be substituted. Failng to have rag joint & flange in steering shaft is what makes installing a tilt column in a 57-64 4X2 or 57-66 4X4 a major project. :roll:

The reason axle substitution is out is the frame forward of front cab mounts is shaped to support leaf springs & a drag link & tierod steered single I beam. The frame kick is much different. There are rear shackles, in addition there are the side bellhousing mount provisions.

65 -79 4X2 and later 4X4 use independent coil springs & radius beams with 4X2 havings 2 independent I-Beams & both use the centerlink style steering. The 4X2 has rear steer, meaning centerlink is behind the twin I beams while 4X4 has front steer with the centerlink ahead or infront of the front axle housing.

As said above, it is not impossible to put a tilt column in an early style chassis, but it is more work than it it worth IMHO. 8)

As for putting an integral bed body on a later chassis, it requires placing the early style frame outriggers on the frame rails so that when the body is positioned all of the body mounts (bed & cab) load as equally as possible and have enough "flex" to allow frame & body to "work" and give together. If I could find a solid 4X2 Integral bed I would like to mount it on a later frame and video it as I do it. . . . I have the frame to use, just can't find the right SWB Integral Bed 4X2 that I can afford so far. :(

FBp 8)
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Comet
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Post by Comet »

Ok, what I meant was an F-250 axle- Leaf springs. And the whole assy with it. The steering box on a '78 mounts to the inside of a boxed frame and is around 11" long if I remember correctly. In '78 the front cross member is angled back to accomodate the lengthy box. On the uni frame the cross member is fwd. much more, so you would need to angle it and probably notch and box it some too. Shackles are reversed on the later model trucks, but you could easily do that as well. With the later truck box and shaft, the tilt col. could easily be used I would think. I still don't see how this would be that hard. I build Jeeps and we are putting full size truck axles on them all the time, so once you strip it down to the frame it's like starting over. The big question is always the steering box and will it fit.
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Comet
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Post by Comet »

Hey wait FBp, I did say F250 in my original post! :P
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FORDBOYpete
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Post by FORDBOYpete »

Comet, :D

Well you did mention it in the text. But there is a split in the 73-79 F-250s at 6900#GVW. F-250s over 6900# are same as F-350, those under 6900# are more like F-150s with the coil springs I commented on. :roll:

What I'm saying is front coil spring suspended frames are way different from front leaf spring ones. Steering on the leaf (thru 66) will be the old 57-64 side mounted pitman & drag link set up and tilting one takes major machine & fabrication work, more work than I'm willing to do for a client.

And as I said, anything can be done with enough resources (time $$$ work etc) thrown its' way. But I can plant a body on a frame FASTER than I can upgrade a early style to P/S Front PDBs & qwik tight handling.

Point is two piece strg shafts on 65-79 twin I's & coil sprung 4X4s are a piece of cake to add a tilt column to, while older Gemmer & Ross single shaft systems are not. . . . :wink:

FBp 8)
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6166 Junkyard Dog
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Post by 6166 Junkyard Dog »

Here is how we installed A Tilt column in a 56 F-100 Still with Straight axle Original Gear Box in which is the same prinicipal as 61-64 boxes,,, Took the original box where the shaft the comes out, cut it down to leave few inches to install what they call Universal Joints or Borg. Joints that they have for all different applications that will go onto the shaft out of the box & different steering columns, The one column in my truck is out of a 68 T-Bird that has been in there since 1984.. A lot of street rod shops offer these joints or go to this site www.classicperform.com
or in their catalog on page 77 they have several illustrations or a place local is go where the do a lot of driveshafts & driveline they carry many of the smaller joints since they use them for PTO'S Or steering shafts for Semi's... Fleet Pride is the local company here but they are all over the country :?: One thing I would do :idea: is experiment on a old junk box first to get it right after that is done there is several ways to mount the column to the dash & also to the floor of the truck + there is also some companies that offer these kits too....
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thomasphilbeck
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Post by thomasphilbeck »

I'm not sure about if our frames similar or not but in my 65 i used the power steering and colum out of a 79 lincon
65' cc 302 w/C-6
ayatollah of rock&rol
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Post by ayatollah of rock&rol »

wow!! information overload. well to start with my uni ( as best as i can tell) is a frame swap . im not sure from what . iv only had it a short time,( i still havent had time to wash the moss off it) and apperently there is some debate as to if there were even any 4x4 unis made .at any rate it is a uni 3/4 ton 4x4 so i think ill throw a pile of $$$ at it and see what happens . the only mods i think ill do is an engine swap ( i ve got a nice new 390 hp thats just itch'n to roll) ps, pdb, tilt, paint .and new seat. should be fun .
it just seems to me that the easiest way to do a tilt swap would be to add a rag joint in the collum and adapt a tilt from a later truck or car. but mabey thats not doable. ill have to do some crawlin and take some pics to determine the running gear.
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