Ford Trucks and Super Duty Scoops

[Michelle]

I just read an interesting artical about Super Duty scoops on a Pontiac web site. It seems that the S/D scoops were really never put on Pontiacs at the factory. It is a myth created by the same name. Here is a link to the article.


http://pontiacparadise.com/shoptalk/2009/08/13/45/

[Hawkrod]

I just read an interesting artical about Super Duty scoops on a Pontiac web site. It seems that the S/D scoops were really never put on Pontiacs at the factory. It is a myth created by the same name. Here is a link to the article.


http://pontiacparadise.com/shoptalk/2009/08/13/45/

Where does it say they were not put on by Pontiac? He does say they are Ford truck scoops but he does not say that they are not what Pontiac used. He also says "THESE SUPER DUTY HOOD SCOOPS ARE OFF MID 70’S TO MID 80’S F-600 FORD DUMP TRUCKS!" which we know is wrong so how could we assume anything else he wrote is correct? If he did not do the research on such a simple thing how can we assume that his research on much scarcer details is correct? Also note that it was not unusual for manufacturers to buy parts from other companies. Pontiac and Oldsmobile used Ford 3 speed trans and Torino's and Mustangs used Quadrajet carbs. There are a lot more examples but those are the easiest one. JMO, Hawkrod

[ICEMAN6166]

the point of the article i think is buyer beware.

he talks about the same kind of stuff we see- anything ranger related can be added to a slick, this does not make it a ranger.

i do agree more research should have been done (at least get the truck years correct)

[fire truck]

Actually, I just saw a 78 ford dumptruck with one of these schools yesterday....

[Michelle]

Hawk, the guy is a Pontiac purist and if you carefully read the whole thing you will see that he is very informed about Pontiac Super Duty's and knows what is right and with is not on them. No where did he say that these were exactly like the ones on the Pontiac or that the Pontiac even had them. I read it as it is pure fiction that they ever existed on a Pontiac. I think the whole thing stems from the name Super Duty. Thank about when you see one on a car, it looks like crap, these were made for trucks and had Pontiac wanted a scoop they would have made their own. Since I posted that I have been doing a little research and have not been able to find one picture of a Pontiac from back in the day with one of these scoops. The only pictures I find are cloned cars that are look a like race cars of the day with these scoops. I have checked NASCAR pictures of Pontiacs from 60 to 63 the three years the Super Duty Pontiacs were made as well as drag cars from those years and have not found one with the scoop. If someone can show me a factory brochure showing a Super Duty scoop on a Pontiac from a Ford truck I may start to believe it. I have been wrong in the past and could be wrong about this as well, but I will have to see some type of proof to convince me.

[Hawkrod]

Hawk, the guy is a Pontiac purist and if you carefully read the whole thing you will see that he is very informed about Pontiac Super Duty's and knows what is right and with is not on them. No where did he say that these were exactly like the ones on the Pontiac or that the Pontiac even had them. I read it as it is pure fiction that they ever existed on a Pontiac. I think the whole thing stems from the name Super Duty. Thank about when you see one on a car, it looks like crap, these were made for trucks and had Pontiac wanted a scoop they would have made their own. Since I posted that I have been doing a little research and have not been able to find one picture of a Pontiac from back in the day with one of these scoops. The only pictures I find are cloned cars that are look a like race cars of the day with these scoops. I have checked NASCAR pictures of Pontiacs from 60 to 63 the three years the Super Duty Pontiacs were made as well as drag cars from those years and have not found one with the scoop. If someone can show me a factory brochure showing a Super Duty scoop on a Pontiac from a Ford truck I may start to believe it. I have been wrong in the past and could be wrong about this as well, but I will have to see some type of proof to convince me.

Okay, how much stuff do you need? They actually were assigned a Pontiac part number because they had to be "factory" to be used in some racing organizations (NHRA specifically disallowed them until Pontiac gave them an official part number). That should be the biggest proof. The next point is his point seems more to me that, sure, we know they used them but every one you see is not from a SD Pontiac because they are just a Ford truck scoop. I agree that he is a specialist in the field but the fact that he didn't bother to get the details right bothered me because it is a big issue in my mind. I do think you misunderstood what he was writing and extrapolated from what you thought he was saying. You may want to read Jim Wangers book "Glory Days" as it has a ton of info and photo's from the day. Anyway, below are several pictures from the time. Hawkrod







P.S. here is a nice article from another Pontiac enthusiast who is very into the SD Tempests:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original Super Duty 421 Lemans Tempests were Pontiac factory-built drag race-only coupes and station wagons, designed to combat other factory lightweights that had a weight advantage over the big Super Duty Catalinas. Two "mule" cars were built as Tempests, one in Silvermist Metallic and one in Yorktown Blue Metallic (Bill Shrewsberry was the driver), which were the testbed for the production series. Eventually six Lemans-badged coupes were built, along with six Tempest station wagons in Cameo White with blue interiors. All sported deceiving 326 V-8 emblems, cleverly hiding the 421 cubic inch monster lurking under the hood.

In addition to the 421 engines, the Super Duty Tempests featured aluminum front sheetmetal, aluminum bumpers and a unique clutch-operated 4-speed transaxle. This transaxle arrangement placed more weight over the rear tires and allowed clutchless shifting, much like modern drag racing transmissions. Special parts on the Tempest 421 SD's included dual 4-barrel carbs mounted on a medium-rise intake manifold (the Lemans had a high-rise "bathtub" intake), sealed aluminum cross-flow radiator with special overflow tank, and factory exhaust dumps. Other features included heater delete plates on the firewall, trunk mounted battery, and special "black box" access door to the transaxle and clutch assembly. Unlike the Lemans, the Tempest featured an all-chrome grille and bullet-shaped tailights.
a hood scoop was lifted from a competitor's medium duty truck line and given a Pontiac part number for the SD project.


Super Duty
Perhaps the most famous Tempests built were 1963 cars. Just 11? in number, they were built at the Pontiac plant in Michigan over Christmas 1962


So if Pontiac built six Super Duty Tempest station wagons and six Super Duty Le Mans coupes, then what happened to the rest? Short answer, according to Pete McCarthy's Pontiac Musclecar Performance Manual: Nobody seems to know.

Super Duty Tempest station wagons

· Shipped to Royal Pontiac, Royal Oak, Michigan. Whereabouts unknown.

· Shipped to Anderson Pontiac, Akron, Ohio. Tuned and driven by Arlen Vanke and campaigned as the Papoose One. Whereabouts unknown.

· Shipped to Al Hodges Pontiac, Cocoa, Florida. Driven by John Tempest. Whereabouts unknown, possibly destroyed.

· Shipped to Van Winkle Pontiac, Dallas, Texas. Driven by J.L. Meador, later owned and raced by Don Gay. Whereabouts unknown.

· Shipped to Union Park Pontiac, Wilmington, Delaware. Restored.

· Shipped to Arnie Beswick, Morrison, Illinois. Campaigned as Mrs. B's Grocery Getter. Stripped and dismantled, but later cloned by Wally Abela.

Super Duty Le Mans coupes

· Shipped to Ray Nichels Engineering, Merrillville, Illinois. Driven by Paul Goldsmith to a win in the 1963 Daytona 250-mile Challenge Cup. Documented as destroyed.

· Shipped to Stan Long Pontiac, Detroit, Michigan. Driven by Stan Antlocer. Whereabouts unknown, though front clip has been recovered.

· Shipped to Superior Pontiac, San Antonio, Texas. Whereabouts unknown.

· Shipped to Mickey Thompson. Campaigned as the No. 749 A/FX car and driven by Bill Shrewsberry and Bob Spar. Fate unknown.

· Shipped to Mickey Thompson. Campaigned as the No. 756 A/FX car and driven by Jess Tyree; later sold to Arnie Beswick and campaigned as the Little B's Runabout before Beswick converted it into the Tameless Tiger Funny Car. Destroyed in a racing accident, but later restored.

· Shipped to George DeLorean and Roger Schmidt. Restored.

[foodstick]

Its funny isn't it how little decisions made by motor companies 50 years ago, can still be such interesting facts to chase down and discuss.

We still argue and discuss all the little things about ancient airplane details on the rc airplane forums too !

[Alan Mclennan]

For what it`s worth!, I don`t think they even look the same!

[Hawkrod]

For what it`s worth!, I don`t think they even look the same!

Amazingly enough, the actual hood from that car still exists (so does the car, it sold for over 225,000 recently in fresh barn find condition with no engine!). Note that the hood and front fenders had been seperated from the car back in the early days. You will note that the hood is still white but the scoop is discolored. this is because the hood and fenders were aluminum on the Super Duty and the scoop is just a standard Ford truck steel scoop so it rusted in the Florida humidity. Note that this car was almost scrapped because it was assumed to be valuless and when somebody decided to eBay it for $500 the Super Duty guys were all over it! Needless to say that the scrapper who was hoping to get $500 for the car was really hapy to get nearly a quarter mil! LOL Hawkrod



About the car pictured above:
http://bringatrailer.com/2008/11/07/long-lost-racer-1963-pontiac-lemans-super-duty/

[factorystock]

According to my research, the F series hood scoop era came to an end on the 1972 F 750.

[fire truck]

How about this one from a 1985 L700?

[Michelle]

OK, at this point I will say it is plausible, I am starting to lean a little but I am still not totally convinced. I will have to see some Pontiac part numbers for it. How do I know that the one on the Tempest was not one the guy found on an old Ford truck in a junk yard some place. I notice that one on the car didn't have a grill in it, probably because or the peak in the hood. I may try and contact the guy that wrote the article.

[DanSanDiego2000]

OK, at this point I will say it is plausible, I am starting to lean a little but I am still not totally convinced. I will have to see some Pontiac part numbers for it. How do I know that the one on the Tempest was not one the guy found on an old Ford truck in a junk yard some place. I notice that one on the car didn't have a grill in it, probably because or the peak in the hood. I may try and contact the guy that wrote the article.

To add to the conjecture, I understood that the grille was a 'Ford only' part, and that the Pontiacs were front facing/no grille, and the Fords rear facing/with grille.

[factorystock]

You are correct firetruck,my mistake, some L series diesels used the scoops also, even after the F series stopped using them.Maybe they aren't as rare as we previosly thought.

[Alan Mclennan]

For what it`s worth!, I don`t think they even look the same!

Amazingly enough, the actual hood from that car still exists (so does the car, it sold for over 225,000 recently in fresh barn find condition with no engine!). Note that the hood and front fenders had been seperated from the car back in the early days. You will note that the hood is still white but the scoop is discolored. this is because the hood and fenders were aluminum on the Super Duty and the scoop is just a standard Ford truck steel scoop so it rusted in the Florida humidity. Note that this car was almost scrapped because it was assumed to be valuless and when somebody decided to eBay it for $500 the Super Duty guys were all over it! Needless to say that the scrapper who was hoping to get $500 for the car was really hapy to get nearly a quarter mil! LOL Hawkrod



About the car pictured above:
http://bringatrailer.com/2008/11/07/long-lost-racer-1963-pontiac-lemans-super-duty/

Hawkrod, That scoop isn`t even close to being the same one in the earlier picture!, look at the back edge , the early one has a sharp curve at the back and the yellow one is more rounded.

[Hawkrod]

For what it`s worth!, I don`t think they even look the same!

Amazingly enough, the actual hood from that car still exists (so does the car, it sold for over 225,000 recently in fresh barn find condition with no engine!). Note that the hood and front fenders had been seperated from the car back in the early days. You will note that the hood is still white but the scoop is discolored. this is because the hood and fenders were aluminum on the Super Duty and the scoop is just a standard Ford truck steel scoop so it rusted in the Florida humidity. Note that this car was almost scrapped because it was assumed to be valuless and when somebody decided to eBay it for $500 the Super Duty guys were all over it! Needless to say that the scrapper who was hoping to get $500 for the car was really hapy to get nearly a quarter mil! LOL Hawkrod



About the car pictured above:
http://bringatrailer.com/2008/11/07/long-lost-racer-1963-pontiac-lemans-super-duty/

Hawkrod, That scoop isn`t even close to being the same one in the earlier picture!, look at the back edge , the early one has a sharp curve at the back and the yellow one is more rounded.

It is just an optical delusion. It is not only the same type scoop it is the same actual scoop pictured. That is part of the amazing history of this rare car. It has 9K miles and has only had a two owners until this last year. All of the original parts except for the engine and trans were either with the car or with a racer from the old days. It is truly an amazing story. This car is one of the most documented Pontiac race cars in existence. Hawkrod

[Alan Mclennan]

OK Hawk!, I`ll take your word for it!!