Radiator support panel

Alan Mclennan · Post by **Alan Mclennan** » July 31, 2007, 6:01 pm

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the radiator support panel on the 65 to the 66? My two 66`s aren`t the same. I was thinking that maybe one is a 65 with a 66 grill or vice/versa,will the chassis number tell me their year of manufacture.
Alan

Post by **Greg D** » July 31, 2007, 6:06 pm

65 and 66 core supports are different but not by much, with a little modification they will interchange.

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » July 31, 2007, 6:31 pm

A couple of possible explanations.
First, though, look in my gallery to see the differences between a '65 and a '66. That might help.
The 4x4 will be different from the 2x4.
If you have an early '66 or a late '65 you might have one where they used up parts for the previous year.
Or, a late '65 held over into early '66 might have been titled as a '66.

Post the VINs, and we'll get the month of manufacture with that information.

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » July 31, 2007, 7:18 pm

Likely they will be Canadian manufacture VINs if it's a '65. Different from US built

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » July 31, 2007, 8:41 pm

Good point, JC. That might be the problem. His trucks probably don't speak anything but Canadien. :roll:

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » July 31, 2007, 8:48 pm

now Banjo, eh, don't you'se jump to any conclusions eh? Dem guys eh in Windsor, eh have a kind of Yankee accent eh, you'se can tell d'ere from south of Detroit, eh? :wink:

Alan Mclennan · Post by **Alan Mclennan** » July 31, 2007, 8:49 pm

banjopicker66 wrote:Good point, JC. That might be the problem. His trucks probably don't speak anything but Canadien.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?.I`ll check out the sign language on the chassis and get back to you.
Alan

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » July 31, 2007, 8:52 pm

The fastest way to see what year the support is LOOK Behind the grill on the Pass. Side and if you see three < 3 > cage nuts holding the bottom of your battery tray on then its a true 66 support 1965 Does not have this, trucks over the years could have the grill changed but if nobody touched the support those 3 little cage nuts TELL THE STORY on whether its a 65 or 66, Now its slightly possible on when truck was made but Ford did not split years in halfs or early or late One reason these trucks where built on Customer's Orders, Back then Ford did not build a bunch of trucks hoping to sell, They built was needed thats why I can reember My Dad's Truckin Company ordering trucks or cars and would take sometimes 2-3 months to get in not like today go to any Ford Dealer and pick out a truck and get it in few hours

Alan Mclennan · Post by **Alan Mclennan** » August 1, 2007, 12:29 am

banjopicker66 wrote:
Post the VINs, and we'll get the month of manufacture with that information.

The chassis # for the yellow one is 240NA10540B.
Junkyard Dog,I take it the pass side is the r/hand side?,neither of them have three cage nuts on any side but there is a filler spacer to the side of the radiator with three c/nuts are they the ones you refered to :roll:

,I have posted some photos of the supports in my album have a capt cook and let me know what you think.Alan

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » August 1, 2007, 12:45 am

Wow. Alan you really got me with that one. Maybe someone with a '65 or '66 shop manual can decipher that for ya, but it makes no sense to me. Does it have a door tag?

Alan Mclennan · Post by **Alan Mclennan** » August 1, 2007, 1:15 am

Johnny C,No it doesn`t have a door tag, but thinking about it when I was rubbing it back there was a number stamped into the firewall.I now know that I should of written it down and using my fading memory I seem to recall it only had four digits strange.Did you look at the photos ,no hint there?.
Alan.

66fordtrucknut · Post by **66fordtrucknut** » August 1, 2007, 4:39 am

A 66' 2 wd support has the radiator brackets on the radiator and the 65' has the brackets spot welded the support.
Charlie

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » August 1, 2007, 6:40 am

thanks Charlie on the brackets reminding me. sometimes I don't like raising hoods so I take a short cut and look for those 3 cage nuts on the rh side.... :lol:

Of course is this was a right hand drive trucks that would be on the d/s :lol:

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » August 1, 2007, 12:41 pm

6166 Junkyard Dog wrote:The fastest way to see what year the support is LOOK Behind the grill on the Pass. Side and if you see three < 3 > cage nuts holding the bottom of your battery tray on then its a true 66 support 1965 Does not have this, trucks over the years could have the grill changed but if nobody touched the support those 3 little cage nuts TELL THE STORY on whether its a 65 or 66, Now its slightly possible on when truck was made but Ford did not split years in halfs or early or late One reason these trucks where built on Customer's Orders, Back then Ford did not build a bunch of trucks hoping to sell, They built was needed thats why I can reember My Dad's Truckin Company ordering trucks or cars and would take sometimes 2-3 months to get in not like today go to any Ford Dealer and pick out a truck and get it in few hours

Unfortunately you are mistaken about how Ford built trucks back then. They did in fact build trucks hoping they would sell. The line never stopped and even if there were no orders they still built vehicles. These are often referred to as "idle line vehicles". Early 60's and older idle line vehicles are very easy to identify as they do not have a DSO. They were built at a point where there were no orders and hence did not have a final shipping destination. The reality is that Ford had a very good program in place back then and never stopped the line. Many people are under the mistaken impression that there were piles of parts at the plant just waiting to make a vehicle from but this is a falacy. Ford had the best JIT inventory system in the world at the time and parts were only ordered for vehicles scheduled. That is why it took so long to get a special order vehicle. If the vehicle assembly plant (VAP) had 100 units scheduled then they ordered 100 sets of tires and 100 engines etc... and these parts were shipped to the plant. When a special order came in it was not just built, it was placed in the schedule and parts were ordered. In those days it took 2-3 days to build a truck. The problem for your dads trucks is there other vehicles already scheduled (including "idle line vehicle") and those were built before new orders. This is why it took so long to get your special order. Your dads time lag was either an issue with the dealer not stocking vehicles or your dad not wanting standard features as many dealers did have plenty of vehicles in stock and you could just walk into a dealership and drive away in a new truck. There were several kinds of orders back then and they included dealer stock, customer order (something the dealer did not have on hand and could not find at a close dealer for an exchange, they did that too back then), special order (vehicles that had non-standard features), and a few other like demos etc... Also, Ford did not split years as you say but they split parts in a year. There were in fact early trucks and late trucks when it came to certain components. Because there were not huge piles of parts waiting to be used, Ford VAP's would order parts on an as needed basis. Very often the parts would change due to failures in the field or customer complaints. When the VAP ordered its next batch of parts it would get the revised part not the old one. That is why the Master Parts Catalog has so many notes about "from unit number XXX" or "from 4/15/64" that is becuase that is where the parts were revised mid model year. This means there are very often differences from early to late in a single model year. The only example I have in my mind is the air cleaner on a 66/67 352. There were two different ones, C6TZ-9600-E used before serial number A84,001 and C7TZ-9600-G used from serial number A84,001. The MPC's are full of notes about running changes like this. Just thought you may want to know, Hawkrod

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » August 1, 2007, 1:36 pm

maybe in certain parts of the country you got your Ford vehicle fast but I do know that it took several months to get ours cause our cars & trucks where built with the options that we wanted on them nothing special just the way you wanted them took longer the others

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » August 1, 2007, 1:55 pm

6166 Junkyard Dog wrote:maybe in certain parts of the country you got your Ford vehicle fast but I do know that it took several months to get ours cause our cars & trucks where built with the options that we wanted on them nothing special just the way you wanted them took longer the others

Yes, if you specified specific things and the dealer did not have then they placed a customer order, that is exactly what I wrote. When an order was placed it went into the schedule and was built when its time came up. This was not because it took a long time to build, it was because other vehicles were already scheduled first. Hawkrod

cdherman · Post by **cdherman** » August 1, 2007, 9:27 pm

I value both your areas of knowledge on this matter, and I would not like for you fellows to get into a shoutin' match again about who is correct.

I'll buy you both a beer next year in Kansas City if you try and not let this escalate, OK??

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » August 1, 2007, 11:38 pm

I am sorry, I did not realize it was a dispute. I was simply correcting misinformation. Unfortunately too few people have a good grasp of how vehicles are, and were built, and that causes what can only be called the "rumour mill" to fill in the blanks. It is unfortunate but easily corrected by disseminating correct information. For example the quote "Back then Ford did not build a bunch of trucks hoping to sell" is pretty much as far from correct as you could get short of saying "Ford did not build trucks"! Trucks were an area that Ford excelled at and the vast majority of light trucks built were made for dealer stock (the percent of special order is very low for a normal year, excluding fleet sales). This means most light trucks were just built hoping somebody would go to the dealer and buy them.

The other common misconception is the idea that Ford used left over parts from previous years or anything laying around to build trucks and that is a myth. Yes, it is common to have parts that are considered one years parts on the next years truck but that is not because they were leftover. The only way they can be used is if they are scheduled to be used. My example of the air cleaner is a perfect one. You may find a 67 owner saying "my 67 has a 66 air cleaner on it". Technically this is true but only because that was Fords plan but at a certain point in the production cycle they changed the plan and started using a different part. These running changes were actually quite common and well documented. It was, and is, critical for Ford to know what parts they built a vehicle with because they had a warranty. When a vehicle was being serviced in the field, the dealer had to be able to order the correct parts for replacement.

Another issue was failure, Ford tracked failures in the field like an jaguar tracks prey. They used this information to identify problems and issue recalls. It is truly amazing to read through 1960's NHTSA recalls. There are some astounding examples. Recently I came across a couple of fine examples of just how accurate the record keeping was at Ford. Due to laws regarding manufacturing and also warranty repair and company insurance requirements, Ford really did (and still does) an incredible job tracking the parts used to assemble a vehicle. Fords JIT inventory system was one of the best in the world back in the 50's and 60's and it was highlighted for me when I was reviewing the old NHTSA recall information. Did you know there was a recall on 67 Mustangs for Stucture:Body issues? The amazing thing was the records indicate that it affected 842 cars! Tell me how much more accurate you can be? Given the 100,000's of cars made, it was amazing to see that small number. I looked at a bunch of recalls and they usually affect 10,000 20,000 even 400,000 cars but here was this recall for 842 1967 Mustangs. For comparison, the recall for 68 Mustang seat back failures was estimated to be 480,000 units and 67 Mustang steering wheel recall was 447,000 units. Another good one is the 69 Mustang heater core which affected 12,972 units. The fact is Ford knew specifically how many vehicles were built using a specific part although they may not know exactly what serial numbers they were because of the way inventory systems works. Ford would know when the parts were received but not when they were actually used beyond a margin of error (that is why recalls always say between XX/XX/1968 and XX/XX/1968).

I realize this response is long winded and meandering but I feel it is important for people to have a clear understanding of how things were actually done not how urban myth has come to be accepted as "the way things were done back then". Hawkrod

Alan Mclennan · Post by **Alan Mclennan** » August 2, 2007, 1:09 am

What about the triangular holes with rounded corners, between the radiator opening and the headlight, does that help tell?.
Alan

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » August 2, 2007, 7:18 am

Alan, did you check out my gallery? I took closeups of the radiator mounts to help see the differences.
The radiator mounting is the biggest difference between '65 and '66, like was mentioned earlier.
Notice the set of brackets soldered onto the radiator, one on each side.
The '65 and earlier trucks had additional supports spot welded to the core support, and the radiator brackets soldered on the sides bolted to these extra supports.

In '66 Ford turned the radiator brackets around, and bolted them straight to the core support. They eliminated the extra supports.

If you look closely at my gallery, you can see the differences.

Hope this helps.