My letter to Fatman Fabrications

The place to talk Slicks. All we ask is that discussion has something to do with slicks...

Moderators: Kid, Casey 65

Post Reply
MadMaxetc
Posts: 2600
Joined: July 10, 2006, 12:00 pm
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:
United States of America

My letter to Fatman Fabrications

Post by MadMaxetc »

Here is what I sent, I will let you know what I get back and I will post it here.

Suspension Options for a 63 F-100

Hello,
I am interested in putting a Mustang II front suspension and a 4-Link rear suspension on my truck and would like to know what you would suggest.
First, a little about my project. I am building a 1963 F-100 LWB Truck. I will be running a 460cid V8 and a C6 automatic transmission, and possibly a Gear Vendors unit. I currently have the original 9” rear end. I plan to be making 500ft-lbs & 500hp and running long tube headers. I would like to have about a 4” to 6” drop all the way around. The look I am going for is more of a stock performance look. I plan to have a lot of painted parts and very little (if any) chrome or polished items. I do plan to run it at the local drag strip a few times a year, but also want to have a smooth ride for just cruising around and road trips.
I have looked through you catalog and I can’t figure out what the “Stage 1” configuration is fro the MII, and what the price is? I would like a “Hub-to-Hub” kit but I don’t need the Polished SS control arms, so I don’t think that I need the “Stage 2” kit. (remember I am going for a stock look.) I am also wondering if you have the “Bolt-In” 4-Link for my truck finished yet? And how much of a drop would the 2 systems (MII & 4-Link) give me? I have a welder and I am not afraid to use it, so the kits do not have to be bolt in but they are nice as they make proper alignment a little easier.
I am also wondering why you list the frames in the groups that you do? The ’57-’64 frames are basically the same, as they use the Single axle. The ‘65-’79 frames are basically the same as they use the Twin axle setup. Yet you have these 2 frames listed as 3 separate groups, ’57-’60, ’61-’66, ’67-’79. Do you list them this way because the body styles are different between the 3? This is not a big deal, I am just curious.
So what would you suggest for packages and pricing? What about Tax and Shipping? Thank you for your help! I look forward to doing business with you!

Thank You,
Daniel Kasprick

PS: I am a member of a club for ’61-’66 Ford trucks, we refer to them as “Slicks.” We have 2 sites ate the moment, as we are switching over. www.Slick60s.org and www.FordTruk.com . I plan to post your reply on both these boards, as there are a number of members that are planning to do the same thing as I am. You are welcome to join and post any information about you products you like.
Dan
Project: '63 F-100 LWB / 460 / C6 / 2x4
My Build Thread
User avatar
Comet
Posts: 775
Joined: July 5, 2006, 10:03 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Post by Comet »

Dan, read through this thread posted on another forum by El Polacko, who sometimes posts on the Slick site. I'm sure you're familiar with his truck. BTW, didn't "Fatman" just die a couple weeks ago?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=115209
My Slick is rustier than your Slick! :D
jeepbut
Posts: 650
Joined: April 15, 2006, 8:15 pm
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
United States of America

Post by jeepbut »

Well, did they ever respond? Thanks, Lyman.
MadMaxetc
Posts: 2600
Joined: July 10, 2006, 12:00 pm
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:
United States of America

Post by MadMaxetc »

i sent the letter to the wrong address. I sent it back out a week ago.

I will let you know what comes back.
Dan
Project: '63 F-100 LWB / 460 / C6 / 2x4
My Build Thread
User avatar
jakdad
Posts: 1968
Joined: July 18, 2006, 4:07 pm
Location: Katy,Texas

Post by jakdad »

Comet wrote:Dan, read through this thread posted on another forum by El Polacko, who sometimes posts on the Slick site. I'm sure you're familiar with his truck. BTW, didn't "Fatman" just die a couple weeks ago?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=115209

We never had these problems with the junk yard MII suspensions...........
Jim
Obsa
Posts: 1928
Joined: July 19, 2006, 4:33 pm
Location: Northwest Georgia
United States of America

Post by Obsa »

Has anyone seen the link that Taz posted on the old site about Fatman Frames?
MadMaxetc
Posts: 2600
Joined: July 10, 2006, 12:00 pm
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:
United States of America

Post by MadMaxetc »

ya I did. They look awsome, but they are not 61-66, cant be, they can only be 65-66, else the bumper mounts, cab mounts and a bunch of other stuff will not work.

thats why I said this in my letter...
I am also wondering why you list the frames in the groups that you do? The ’57-’64 frames are basically the same, as they use the Single axle. The ‘65-’79 frames are basically the same as they use the Twin axle setup. Yet you have these 2 frames listed as 3 separate groups, ’57-’60, ’61-’66, ’67-’79. Do you list them this way because the body styles are different between the 3? This is not a big deal, I am just curious.


We will see what they say.
Dan
Project: '63 F-100 LWB / 460 / C6 / 2x4
My Build Thread
Shawn F.
Posts: 408
Joined: August 6, 2006, 4:20 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Post by Shawn F. »

Fat Man's is a great product. On The Hamb they had a huge thing about not liking the MII kits that you should read. IMO it's all a rumor and it's the persons fault whoever welded it incorrectly but bracing these things up a bit wouldn't hurt. I agree they do look a LITTLE weak but they would not be making them like they do and selling them if they were no good. I just got an Ultra Low kit from him for my 1954 Chevy Hardtop and I can't thank Fat Mans enough for all that they did for me (it's good to work for someone who is best friends with people like this). When I was up there the other day they had the teal truck (some of you may know what I am talking about, it's on websites all the time) with the MII and lowered with the plain stock wheels and baby moons and rings. They were doing something to it but it was sure nice. I am trying to debate on wether or not to put the new bolt on kit onto my 66 or not. In a way it's cheaper to do this than going through the dropped beams and new bushings, brake lines, etc etc. In the end the MII kit is easier IMO and easier to get parts for as well and upgrade the brakes, etc. Plus if you want to lower about 5 inches in front you can do that easily with this kit and still keep a great ride quality.
To answer one of your questions, yes they DO make the front bolt on kit, as for the back I think they just completed those kits too but if not then they will do a custom one for you. If it were me I would bolt the kit on and at least do 3 inch welds around the kit in places where the most stress will be but that is just my oppinion.
Shawn F.
Posts: 408
Joined: August 6, 2006, 4:20 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Post by Shawn F. »

Oh and I am not selling you Fat Man things or talking you into it either so don't think that. To tell you the truth, if you ever read my old posts on the old MSN site you would know that I didn't care for Fat Man front ends a while back ago because I thought they were not worth it and heard stories about them. Guess you can't always pay attention to the rumors you hear unless you experience it yourself...
Good luck!
User avatar
Comet
Posts: 775
Joined: July 5, 2006, 10:03 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Post by Comet »

Shawn, I already posted a link to the HAMB thread you mentioned above.
My Slick is rustier than your Slick! :D
MadMaxetc
Posts: 2600
Joined: July 10, 2006, 12:00 pm
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:
United States of America

Post by MadMaxetc »

WOW these guys are nice. I expected to get a short letter saying that I should just get the Top of the line and quit bitching, but instead I got a 3 page letter, catalog, and a guide just for our trucks!

Even if I don't go with there kit I would still recomend them.

Ok, here is the letter...

Fat Man Fabrications wrote:All of our suspensions base around a crossmember of 3”x4”x5/16” rectangular tubing, and the ride height is generally 4-5” under stock ….. This, of course, is affected by the tire diameter as well as the suspension placement …….

For general guideline for your truck, plan for the centerline of the spindle to be about 1 ½” above the bottom of the frame at the axle centerline …. Thus, with a 26” tall tire, the bottom of the frame rail will be approximately 11 ½” off the ground. You can mock up your frame on a jack and get a good idea how that will look on your truck and there’s a picture of our shop truck in the catalog and on the web (page 7) that shows a good example. We also have 2” dropped spindles available should you wish to have it lower.

A few years ago we were able to put together a tubular control arm package of investment cast solid stainless for our Mustang II based suspensions and sell them at roughly the same as welded steel prices…..Initially the upgrade price from a Stage I kit to a Stage II was only $100. Then, with the introduction of the stainless arms at the same kit price as the welded steel, the added value pretty much has eliminated the Stage I kits. This is why you don’t see it in the catalog.

A major advantage of the arms, aside from the obvious improvement in appearance, is the incredible increase in strength and decrease in flex in the front suspension. So you have a better looking part, a much stronger part for any application and more consistent and dependable handling due to a decrease in flex in the suspension due to elimination of the weak stamped steel control arms and rubber bushing supported strut rods. Thus, when combined with the heavy wall steel chassis parts in our kits, the suspension is plenty strong for 460 inch motors with heavy truck frames and will go the direction you point it at any speed.

If you simply must have the stock arms and strut rods, I can source them for you, but for the difference in value and strength, I’d strongly suggest you use the stainless arms and paint them if you don’t want them to show.

We did a lot of R & D on a bolt in front suspension, and that’s what you will see in our shop truck. However, the practicability of such a kit is just not there, so we have removed it from our ads and the catalog. It was far too time consuming to manufacture and install, which made it considerable more expensive to both purchase and install and somewhat more bulky due to all the bracketry required for bolt-in installation. So, all the kits for the early Ford trucks are weld in.

Actually, the 57-60 F-100 frames are pretty much the same, and the 61-79 frames are the same, even though Ford did a suspension change in amongst those years. I use the term “pretty much” as car and truck frames are hardly ever exactly the same …. But they are close. And, it seems, we run into the “odd” ones periodically.

The rear weld-in 4 bar suspension kits can set up for whatever ride height you desire. Typically we set the rearend with about 3-4 inches clearance to the bottom of the frame rail and that matches fairly well with the front suspension ride height. Here again, tire diameter and desired ride stance play a large part. You should mock all that up before you weld anything so you know what the finished part will be BEFORE you weld it and risk having to cut it all out and redo it.

Even though the early 60’s Ford trucks have a large engine bay, the 460 is a tight fit. Keep in mind, there is a 3x4 crossmember attached to the bottom of the frame centered at the axle centerline. You will need a rear or “dual sump” oil pan that is shallow at the front. I suggest you use a Canton Oil Pan, made in Connecticut. They make excellent pans that help with tight fit issues.

The price of the basic Stage II kit for your truck is $1865. This includes a ‘manual’ rack and pinion steering and 11” disc brakes with a Ford passenger car bolt pattern for the wheels. Power assist rack and pinion adds $100. I imagine you will want the larger 12” diameter rotors with the 5 lug 5 ½” bolt circle that you currently have on the truck, and this will add another $250. So, the Stage II kit with power assist steering and 5 ½” bolt circle is $2215. There’s no sales tax on out of state mail orders. We add 7% for shipping and handling, so the kit at your door comes to $2370.05.

Availability is good. We generally have these kits in stock. We accept Visa, M/C, Discover and American Express cards.

Hope this helps and answers most of your questions. Call us anytime we can be of service.


So here are the highlites...

1) Ride Height
the ride height is generally 4-5” under stock

2) What About the Stage 1?
eliminated the Stage I kits

3) Why only 2 different frames?
Actually, the 57-60 F-100 frames are pretty much the same, and the 61-79 frames are the same, even though Ford did a suspension change in amongst those years. I use the term “pretty much” as car and truck frames are hardly ever exactly the same …. But they are close. And, it seems, we run into the “odd” ones periodically.

3) Can it handle our trucks?
the suspension is plenty strong for 460 inch motors

4) What about the "Bolt in" MII IFS
the practicability of such a kit is just not there, so we have removed it from our ads and the catalog

5) Price...
So, the Stage II kit with power assist steering and 5 ½” bolt circle is $2215. There’s no sales tax on out of state mail orders. We add 7% for shipping and handling, so the kit at your door comes to $2370.05.


So now I have to go out and look to see what that ride height will look like. I also have to wait till we finish refinacing the house. :D

I will try to get that guide to our trucks on here latter.

So what do you guys think??

(WOW MSN would have eaten this post! Do I win for having the longest post?)
Dan
Project: '63 F-100 LWB / 460 / C6 / 2x4
My Build Thread
Shawn F.
Posts: 408
Joined: August 6, 2006, 4:20 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Post by Shawn F. »

Glad you got that info that quick! The guys there are pretty cool and will try to help you out any way they can. Try to see if they have any old used tubular A arms because ONCE in a while they just MIGHT have some with new bushings, joints, etc that a customer brought back new and wanted the polished ones. If you can do that then you will get a good deal on those and save some money there. Also check NAPA or such for the steering rack if they are not narrowed or nothing and those are cheap as well there. Same with calipers and rotors, Advanced or so might have some kind of GM or such caliper and rotor for cheap. Someone told me to go there to get mine for my Ultra Low kit on my 54 Chevy HT and I can get the calipers 30 bucks a piece! They are stock Camaro one's I think but they will do the job. Remember these trucks came with drums so no need for huge slotted and drilled rotors all the way around.
460v8
Posts: 11
Joined: August 8, 2006, 12:09 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Post by 460v8 »

Great post. Thanks for the info. I have a 66 F100 and am just getting ready to pull the old 6cyl and drop in a rebuilt 460. Already have the C6 AT rebuilt and am thinking of updating the front suspension. What kind of trouble am I getting myself into?! :D Any advise would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks
Lou
User avatar
Johnny Canuck
Posts: 8288
Joined: April 9, 2006, 11:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta.
Canada

Post by Johnny Canuck »

What do I think?

Image

$2370.
:shock:
I had a guy install my Aerostar , and I put in all new bushings, bearings, discs, brakes,brake lines, tie rod ends, and while I didn't put one in, you could add a new rack, and not even come up to half that price, including paying the welder and for the intiial parts, all in.

Seem absolutely outrageous to me... and my truck has cost me 30G's plus already.. :shock:
It's a race.. Will hell freeze over or will JC finish his truck first. Stay tuned..
Post Reply