Brake upgrade...............

[Limestone66]

Good morning to all. Since the heads has been rebuilt and timing adjusted to as best i can get it, i have developed a leaky brake cylinder on the left rear {drivers side}. This old truck has always had good brakes since i first brought it home, until now. One of our members suggested i do a brake upgrade since i am now able to focus on other issues. I couldnt agree more. Bare in mind that i have done absolutly nothing to my brakes, other then add fluid to the old single bowl master cylinder. I have been all under this truck since day one and all the steel lines seem good with no leaks, even at the junction block at the rear axle. I'd like to completely overhaul my brakes with a newer type dual bowl master cylinder, and maybe new lines throughout. I've got to replace the leaky wheel cylinder in the back so i'm gonna spring for two new ones thru 'NPD' as well as a set of brake shoes. Since this old truck will soon pull a 5000 pound travel trailer, i may as well start now. Any info on what i need to get would be invaluable, and as always, i am humble with big ears.

Also another problem that has always baffled me when i bought this old truck, is the emergency brake system doesnt work too good. I hafta leave it in gear when parked as i caint pull it out far enough for the brakes to engage. I have inspected all the cables and brackets underneath and they look ok but completely original and in need of a thorough parts washing and good lube job. That might help it i beleive. Any help on this matter would also be very much appreciated.

[ICEMAN6166]

its quite easy to work on the e brake when you are doing the wheel cylinders, and you might find your shoes are worn out and this is part of the problem.
the cable tension can be adjusted but not until after the brakes are together and the shoes properly adjusted.

[Mr. Jones]

If you're close to an O'reilly store,all this stuff worked for my 66/250.

Fronts;
Wheel cylinders wc41718
wc41719
Spring kit h7139

Shoes 1 bb 33 12"x2"

Haven't done the dual m/c my truck has a vacuum booster,and it's very touchy.
good luck,
dan

[William-in-St George]

Resurface all the drums. Dual chamber MC with a booster, shoes, cylinders, spring kit and new rubber lines and and you should be good to go. Steel lines are not a big deal to replace and I would do that now. IMHO.

[Toyz]

Lots of good info as to applications in past posts on this site. Basic facts are; follow instructions, especially as to running lines, make sure you obtain a drum/drum m/c. In most cases the line orientation will NOT follow street logic . You will finally be forced to fix that brake light switch problem, since you will have to re-locate the switch port, AND, you probably need to run a proportioning valve!
Looking at a later model F-series with drum/drum will probably be helpful when determining application/orientation.
This would also be an opportune time to hook up the trailer brake controller, if you plan to run electric or elec/hydraulic trailer brakes.
Paul

[Limestone66]

Resurface all the drums. Dual chamber MC with a booster, shoes, cylinders, spring kit and new rubber lines and and you should be good to go. Steel lines are not a big deal to replace and I would do that now. IMHO.

Would this kind of setup with the brake booster and dual resevoir give me power brakes? If so then i am all in for it. I do realize going the extra mile with drum resurfacing as well as all new parts, along with a new set of SS lines would be greatly beneficial to me, especially since i want to be able to pull a camper. Thanks 'William'.

Paul? As usual good sound advice, but what role does the 'proportioning valve do? Haven't really began shopping for any parts yet, other then new brake cylinders and a set of brake shoes. Those would hafta be dealt with first, along with a new brake line kit. But the advice from William intrigues me, as i believe this would give me a much better braking system. Would a drum to drum MC and vacueem booster for a 67-72 Ford F-Series work?

[Toyz]

Resurface all the drums. Dual chamber MC with a booster, shoes, cylinders, spring kit and new rubber lines and and you should be good to go. Steel lines are not a big deal to replace and I would do that now. IMHO.

Would this kind of setup with the brake booster and dual resevoir give me power brakes? If so then i am all in for it. I do realize going the extra mile with drum resurfacing as well as all new parts, along with a new set of SS lines would be greatly beneficial to me, especially since i want to be able to pull a camper. Thanks 'William'.

Paul? As usual good sound advice, but what role does the 'proportioning valve do? Haven't really began shopping for any parts yet, other then new brake cylinders and a set of brake shoes. Those would hafta be dealt with first, along with a new brake line kit. But the advice from William intrigues me, as i believe this would give me a much better braking system. Would a drum to drum MC and vacueem booster for a 67-72 Ford F-Series work?

The proportioning valve I mentioned is used on disc/drum setups. I should have used the correct term; the valve block on a later drum/drum setup is a differential valve. It senses pressure differential between front and rear, and activates a warning light.
If you utilize pre-bent lines, then they will be set up for use with this block; if you bend them yourself, it could probably be eliminated if the fittings at m/c and block prove to be the same.
I have little knowledge of various interchangeability; someone on here will have done the conversion, and hopefully will offer help and caveats. I remember some differences on the 67's, but others have stated 67-'72 readily interchange. The parts catalogs offer little help here; it seems that Ford changed parts applications on a whim.
If you obtain a complete assembly from a later truck, it may help to find one with an FE, so you can collect all applicable parts from manifold port to differential switch, including actuator rod from the pedal, and the brake light switch.
Other than that, "search' is your friend; my experience is limited to converting to disc/drum, which I highly recommend, especially for trailer towing. It's hard to beat the discs for fade resistance and their ability to keep on stopping if water should become a factor! One of my trucks came to me with a suspension change to later components; it has the '77 disc/drum setup without power assist. It shuts down quite acceptably, but I still much prefer the power assist.
Again, good luck with it; the projects which start out simple rapidly become complicated.
I would check with Tom @ Flashback to see what he might have available, as well as his recommendations. There are vendors who offer the line kits in stainless once you determine the source and year model of the other components.
Paul

[Limestone66]

...............................UPDATE.......................................

Well 'Push' has came to 'shove' on ol 'Limestone'. Seems the leaky wheel cylinder leaked all the brake fluid out of the mc overnite. Next morning i headed out to work and absolutly no brakes. Ran the stop sign at the end of my road which ends into a very busy US hwy and couldnt gear it down fast enough to at least slow 'er down. With no time for anything except a wild hard right turn that spilt my morning coffee all over my pants and seat, then another hard right that took me across somebodys yard, i was finally able to drive her home and park it. Shaken and confused it was a wonder i didnt T-Bone anybody as the highway was clear. Checked the mc and it was bone dry. Unbeknownst to me, all the fluid had slowly leaked out and rendered me with no brakes. E-brake doesnt work either. Bump that. Went down to our local 'NAPA' store and promptly bought a new dual resevoir mc for a 67 thru 72, new brake shoes and two new rear wheel cylinders for a 66. Now i'd like nothing more then to completely 'overhaul' the brakes on my slick, but that takes time and money, so i hafta do this in sections until this job is complete, cuz 'ol 'Limestone' is my daily driver and i just caint allow her to sit longer then i hafto.

Gonna buy two new brake drums this weekend, also thru 'NAPA', and at least fix the root of the problem with the bad wheel cylinder with new shoes, cylinders, and drums. The old single pot mc is still doin its job, so i'll keep using it until i get that five way distribution block/proportioning valve i've already have lined up, then i can install my new dual resevoir mc. That part ima really lookin forward to.

[Toyz]

Glad everything ended safely, Ron! I hope your experience helps sway someone toward the dual m/c. Two wheel braking ain't much for stopping rapidly, but, as your experience shows, it beats the hell out of NO brakes!

[DV65CustomCab]

Reason #1 to ditch the single pot m/c's on these trucks. Originality be damned; it you can't stop the thing, no one will care how original it is.

[bird55]

I read back thru your post and have to ask. If you are spending money on new drums and cylinders at this point it seems like you need to check pricing on front disc setups. Especially since you tow a trailer.
I had rebuilt my entire drum system on my 64 and thought it was good. Then I installed a disk brake setup afterwards and had an immediate stopping improvement. At first I refused to do it because I thought it would be cheaper to do the drum overhaul bit. In the long run, the disk setup would have been cheaper and far more effective.
I don't need to remind you of what it's like not to have brakes! Glad you are OK, could easily have been disastrous.

[BarnieTrk]

Reason #1 to ditch the single pot m/c's on these trucks. Originality be damned; it you can't stop the thing, no one will care how original it is.

Boy, you got that right, DV65CC!
When it's in a smashed heap, all that will be said is, "Dang, what a shame too, 'cause that WAS a cool ol' truck!"

Ron,
Before you spring for the new brake drums, I'd' take them to the brake shop and ask them to measure their inside diameter...they can tell you if they are still salvageable. I'd also suggest you change the two front flex lines and all four corners with new wheel cylinders, new shoes and new spring kits. The shoe springs may look fine now, but they aren't expensive and are likely tired. They do let loose when you don't want them to, so make them new now.

Then when you've got the proper drum/drum dual-reservoir MC and appropriate distribution block in hand, I'd change to it out and the rear flex line and all the steel lines in between.

When I was ready to replace the lines in my '65 F100, I made a deal with my local parts guy that I'd buy a bunch of various lengths of steel brake lines (of the proper diameter and line couplings to join them together) with the provision that I could bring back (for credit refund) any that I didn't use. Then I bought a brake line bender...'cause you don't want to kink them - but maybe you could borrow a bender tool from a local repair shop friend.

The first step I made was with much penetrating oil and some help from a propane torch, I VERY carefully removed the fittings at the OE connection blocks and differential valve without twisting them off inside the OE fittings. Then I took a long look at re-plumbing the steel lines and what lengths (considering the bends along the way) would put the couplings be where I could get to them easy enough to get my wrenches onto them and tighten them securely. OE steel type lines are much less expensive, will bend much easier and be more forgiving than SS lines. I tried to follow the same path as the OE lines, but not always, due to the limitations of the various tubing lengths.

Once all the lines were run, I wiped them down with a gas-soaked rag (to degrease them) and then I painted them; to reduce/slow the rusting process to the bare steel lines. You may not get paint on all sides of the lines, but you'll get paint on a lot of them. Today, some lines can be bought pre-painted or coated, so the painting step might not be necessary for you.

Then I refilled the MC with fresh brake fluid. I opened the RR wheelwheel cylinder bleed screw and let the fluid gravity bleed to it, once it started to dribble out, I shut the screw. Then after refilling the MC again and rounding up a helper at the brake pedal, we were able to pump up the pedal pressure and bleed the remaining air out of the lines to RR wheel cylinder. Next I moved to the LR, then RF and lastly the LF wheel cylinder, making sure I refilled/topped off the MC between each wheel bleeding. You don't want the MC to run dry, cause if it does, then you'd need to start all over again starting back at the RR wheel cylinder. Once done, you should have a firm brake pedal. If not, it likely means there is still be air in the system & you'll need to go back to the RR wheel cylinder and do the four wheel bleed cycle again. Once you have a firm pedal, then you should have good brakes and you'll be good to go back on the road. Your brakes should feel awesome! Some of these old trucks have & some don't have self-adjusters. If not, you'll need to keep them adjusted periodically. Since it only involves jacking up each corner at a time, popping out the rubber adjustment plug (if still there) and turning the star while hand-turning the wheel, it's not a big deal.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the extra work & cost of front disc brakes. I pull my drums every year to inspect the shoes, springs, front wheel bearings and rear axle seals. I jack up each corner twice a year (depending on the # of miles I've traveled) and spin each wheel, checking / adjusting the brake shoe 'adjusting star' to allow the shoes to "just touch" the drum while hand spinning the tire. By following this PM routine, I trust my brakes well enough to tow my car hauler or most any other trailer I need to move. Now, if I lived or traveled in the mountains, then I might feel different about upgrading to front disc brakes.......

BarnieTrk

[Limestone66]

Thanks guys for the 'concerns', , a dose of 'stark' realism from 'DV65', and always each of yer inputs are most valuable to me. Plain and simple, i was 'lucky'! Damn lucky there wasnt anybody coming, allowing me to take a lesser form of an immediate evasive action.

Today me and my fe buddy that did my heads, spent roughly 2 hours on my brakes in the hot early afternoon sun and installed my new parts, minus the new brake drums that i was gonna buy but didnt need to as mine are still in very good shape. With new rear wheel cylinders and brake shoes and a good cleaning of all related parts, and also pulling the axles which i didnt know we had to do to remove the drums {learn something new everyday}, i now have good brakes with a full pedal. We also fixed the E-brake problem as well. The brakes were completely out of adjustment and left rear automatic adjuster wasnt even hooked up. Hell no wonder i didnt have an E-brake. Both of the wheel bearings were also in good shape as well as the splined axles themselves. Gonna run the old single pot mc for a little while longer until i gather up some more parts, new rubber lines and distribution valve are already in the works, then i can install my new mc. The idea of going to a disc front intrigues me cuz i know it is the way of the west, as 'Bird55 suggested. But this is something i can leave on the back burner for now as long as i still have good brakes. Took 'Limestone' out for a test spin around the block and the brakes are super nice.

BarnieTRK-We are both on the same page. You did a considerable amount of typing in yer reply and all for good reason. Everything you mentioned is pretty much the way ima gonna go. While a disc brake setup is superior to the old drum system, i caint warrant a change from the norm, even if it is a better way to go. Limestone is a tough S.O.B., F-250 with the 'HD' rear axle and suspension and is quite capable of pulling a house down. F-100's little half ton hotrods are super cool and ima seriously thinking of buying one just to run around town with. Those would be cool with that kind of disc brake setup. But i dont think so for 'Limestone'. She be a tough old girl.