Valve adjustment questions? Help

[unibody madness]

Mathews truck (shenanigans) made the 150 mile trip from Paradise to Vallejo, and although the 223 is a new rebuild, I adjusted the valves and he adjusted the valves they still make a heck of a racket.
How should they be done correctly?
I used what I assumed was the go...no go method with a regular feeler gage to get my .019, but the shop manual shows a special go no go gage
The book calls for .019 cold and hot.
Can they be done with the engine running?
This kind of stuff is still way beyond my pay grade... but I am always willing to learn
John

[bobenhotep]

I never did mine while running, but I have heard of folks doing just that. I ran mine until it was all the way up to full operating temp, not just on the gauge, but when the oil pressure drops as low as it is going to when warm. I pulled the valve cover and ran the overhead on it then, just to double check. I never had any problems. I ran valve adjustments on big diesel engines before this, so was familiar with the process. We just did those cold, however. I can't remember how much different the hot valves were compared to the cold ones. I also just used a regular feeler gauge. Hope this makes sense.

Dan

[29rpu]

I'm not mistaken it is a flat tappet not hydraulic lifters And they're always going to make somewhat of a noise. Just should never should be that loud. It shouldn't matter if it's hot or cold or hot it's always going to be .19. When I adjusted mine on my 64 cold Then doublecheck them hot. I don't know how you could adjust them while the engine is running. Since the adjustment screw is on the pushrod side not center like normal small blocks. If your gap keeps changing like mine was What I did was clean the adjustment screw and rocker threads off and used Loctite.

[Toyz]

John, IMO, the "go/no-go" gauge just makes it easier. You can always duplicate it with an.018" and an .020" feeler. Same thing; .018" should fit slightly loose; .020" should not "go". I am assuming you are checking with the 120 degree intervals procedure, and you have no reason to believe the TDC mark is incorrect. I would run them several times , then randomly "feel" check for looseness at various engine positions.
If all rockers are noisy, it would probably be worthwhile to slip an end one off the shaft and closely inspect it and the pushrod cup. Check for adequate oiling of the valve train. The stated limit for rocker to shaft maximum play is .007", so that might be worth attempting to verify if you have access to a dial indicator. There may be other wear points which have not fully "seated" but that would usually clear up within that 150 miles.
Wish I could be more help, but diagnosis via internet is an in-exact science, as you know!
29rpu, my understanding of a "flat tappet" is a non-roller, so thus it is a flat tappet. You are correct in that they are not hydraulic, and are what is normally referred to as "solid" lifters. While some do "diagnostic" adjustments with engine running; I agree it would be hard to set the clearances on that basis.
Paul

[Shadow]

Connie's 223 Was Just Rebuilt And Makes A Little Racket As Well. The Lash Is Set At .019 I Believe. The Guy That Rebuilt Hers Said The Valves Once Seated Should Be Re Adjusted If Need Be. It's A Strong Little Engine Though And Sounds Great......

[Greg D]

Compared to later engines the 223s, 262s, and Y blocks will always be noisy because of the solid lifters.
They shouldn't be excessively noisy though.
Being a fresh rebuild they may just need a little longer to seat.
What weight oil are you running? - those old engines don't like 5w anything.
They were made for straight 30w, I ran 20w-50w in my higher mile 223s and 292s -
you have to KNOW you have good oil flow but especially on an older engine they like the thicker oil.
Even 15w-40w Diesel oil wouldn't be a bad choice.

[Lowell]

Check your rocker arms to see if there dished out where they strike the valve. If so its impossible to adjust. I have removed them and ground the surface on an emery wheel to get them flat again.

[unibody madness]

Thanks for all the answers.
I ask because my sons original engine was much quieter, my 223 that he had adjusted after the bent rod incident, is almost silent, however, the rebuilt motor sounds like its never been adjusted.
The motor was broken in with straight 30 weight for 30 min.
then oil and filter change with 10/30 with a break in additive.
I used the .018 - .020 method of adjusting. so my next step will be to check the rockers for wear in.
I will check back in when that is complete.
John

[unibody madness]

So, we took the rocker arm off of the 223 and found slight cupping on the rockers, as evidenced by light coming through under the edge of a razor blade. machine shop, or do I leave them together as a unit to keep the same plane and resurface ?

All the rockers and posts feel very tight, no obvious wear issues.

The oil inlet tubes were set at one and four cyls, and the book shows they should be at one and six. Different model year? Should I correct this, which location is best ?

[Toyz]

John, I don't remember seeing any other than one and six. There may have been, but it seems strange to me. Does the rear tube come up between # 5 rockers?
As inexpensive as a set of rockers are; my thought would be to replace all. I assume you have already determined that the rocker shaft plugs are in place and the rocker shaft oil holes are pointed downward?
Paul

[unibody madness]

The rockers are at the machinist, and the shaft as well are being cleaned up. The holes were in fact were facing down, but there were no plugs. The oil inlet tubes were in the only upper holes available. number one and umber four pedestals and I was missing one oil tube o ring.
Just for giggles were is the best place to look for a rocker arm

[Toyz]

Guy on the HAMB (and eBay) has all different types posted yesterday. I would probably upgrade to zero lash; assuming they interchange.
If you have been running with low or no oil to the shaft, and that's what it sounds like, I would certainly consider the NOS, just for the sake of re-gaining original geometry. That would partly depend on the price the machinist wants to "re-condition" your old ones, and if he will restore shaft to rocker clearances, if required.
I am thinking the pedestals can be put in the wrong locations, not sure though, or aware as to whether it would make a significant difference. I believe the supply line is going to #6, however, and #1 is return line.
Paul

[unibody madness]

got the rockers back today and reassembled. ran out of steam before running the rack was complete,I have been on the night shift and only managed 4 hours last night back to days till monday so hopefully things will work out tommorow

I have tried folowing the book on setting the lash, but thats a pita, so I am going to tdc adjusting all the intake valves in firing order, then the exhaust on the next go around. any tips on easiest or most accurate?

[Toyz]

John, I may be missing something in your statement. As long as you are bringing the cylinder you are working to TDC, you should be fine doing both intake and exhaust. IMO, best results will be following the PITA. It only takes three 120 degree moves at the crank to follow procedure.
Did your rocker to shaft clearances all come out under .007"? That is the practical wear limit, and anything beyond that will result in long-term oiling and potential performance problems.
Hope all goes well!
Paul

[unibody madness]

The machine shop, had all the rockers and the shaft he said all was well. there were in fact plugs on both ends. I will try the 120 method again. Wish I had marked the three moves on the damper gefore installing the motor in the truck again.

[Toyz]

What was the outcome on the #4 oil tube?
Paul

[unibody madness]

Warmed up engine then re racked it much quieter but still much more noise than either than the other two motors. I have not put valve cover back on yet so maybe its ok.
Had to rebuild generator because of a broken wire (don't ask.
Yeah the oiler is between 4 and five as is the hole through the head for the oiler tube, the oil tube goes up to number four pedestal

[Toyz]

Are you seeing oil at all rockers?
Paul

[unibody madness]

Its oiling just fine. I am going to run the rack one more time this morning once I let it warm up again just because. It seems like its just one or two rockers still making noise.

[Toyz]

I still can't figure that oil inlet location. It makes no practical sense; one would want the oil flow to be end to end, and I have never seen a rocker shaft drilled for oil at #4, but obviously yours is!
Paul