240...will not fire???

The place to talk Slicks. All we ask is that discussion has something to do with slicks...

Moderators: Kid, Casey 65

Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

I could really use some help, information.

My 240 will not fire,start. I worked on it all weekend and replaced the below items. However, I cannot get spark. I tested plug for spark...none. I get power to the distributor, and it will not start.

Replaced:
Distributor
Plug wires
Cap and rotor....twice
Condenser
Coil pack
Spark plugs

Engine ran yesterday for 2 min while adjusting timing. The I throttled up, engine dies. Now I cannot get it to start.
Traced all wires, everything appears to be good. Once today it sputtered while trying to start it (gave me hope).
The carb is getting fuel, and timing is correct, used TDC method and verified it is correct.

Has anyone experienced this before, what small detail am I missing to get my engine running? I feel as I have checked everything....twice. I mean it ran yesterday??

Thanks for any help in advance.
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
slick4x4
Posts: 5721
Joined: April 19, 2008, 10:01 pm
Location: kipp kansas
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by slick4x4 »

Take off your distributor cap
Take the coil wire that goes to the distributor
from the coil & secure it near a ground (not touching)
Turn on the key
Take a screwdriver (plastic handle)
And make the points open & close
Should have spark everytime
If you don't , your going to find out where you losing power
If you do.....
It might be a problem with the rotor to cap connection
.
.
.
[b]'' I think what scares me the most about you guys is that I understand you '' ..... KID
'' lookin good, a little paint adds at least 100hp!'' ....... COOTER
'' well an old guy can dream cant he? ''............ICEMAN
''I would donate organs before selling my slick''........ HOOFBEAT RACER
User avatar
Oregoon
Posts: 288
Joined: November 11, 2013, 9:38 pm

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Oregoon »

Your TDC mark may have slipped, or you inadvertantly installed your distributor incorrectly. I've done that many, many times...

Pull the positive battery connection, your valve cover and your #1 plug. Rotate the engine by hand until the piston is at the top of it's stroke (check this with a piece of stiff wire or a long dowel) and both valves are closed. That's TDC for #1.

Now pop off your distributor cap and see if the rotor lines up with the location on the cap where #1 plug wire lives.

If it's not lining up, there's your trouble. If it is lining up, check the rest of the plug-wires are in firing order, and if they are, you should be able to start her up.
Working on a '66 F100 with a '71 240 and the original three-on-the-tree...
User avatar
Mellvis
Posts: 464
Joined: September 23, 2006, 9:54 am
Location: South West Ohio

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Mellvis »

Did you change/install points? Make sure they are opening and closing and gapped to the correct measurement. Make sure wires to the coil are one correctly and securely. Make sure you have voltage TO the coil on the switch/positive side. Make sure the condenser is mounted securely and gronds propperly. It's easy to overlook simple things like this.
1965 F100 "Papaw's Pride"

"So I'm working on a cistern inlet valve and the guy hands me a lock nut wrench! I was like 'What is this, a drainpipe slipknot!'" -Flo
User avatar
ras4434
Posts: 144
Joined: November 10, 2013, 5:56 pm
Location: Albany Oregon
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by ras4434 »

Bought a truck once for $200.00 because the owner couldn't get it to run after doing all the things that you just mentioned. Worked great after I got it home and tightened the ground cable at the engine.....sometimes just the dumb little things. Just a thought.
Ross Swearingen
1965 F100 "MIKI"
1965 F100 4x4 looking for a new home
Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

I did not install points.

From all the mapping I did it appears the power does not make it from the dis cap to the spark plugs?? I changed out the cap and rotor to eliminate the possibility of them being fouled.

Oregoon, I checked and rotor is lining up as it should. However I will start over and ensure the timing is correct.
Would the truck run and then fail to start again if the timing is way out?

When trying to start the engine it sounds as it normally would, just will not actually start. Sounds like I'm repeating myself, its just that I'm at a loss. :|

Next steps are to verify the grounds are tight. Check timing, Try Slick4x4 method.

Will update, really appreciate the help.
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
slick4x4
Posts: 5721
Joined: April 19, 2008, 10:01 pm
Location: kipp kansas
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by slick4x4 »

Here is a L O N G embarrassing story......

Old 223 6 timing chain jumped
Bought a new chain & sprockets (gears)
Installed them the way I THOUGHT they should go
Cranked and cranked....
Would not start
Looked at the instructions......
Installed them CORRECTLY
cranked & cranked......
Would not start
What the heck (did not use that word) was going on ?
Battled that engine (did not use the word engine) for several nights
Took off valve cover and did EVERYTHING right.....
Pulled a plug to be sure that God wasn't pulling a trick on me
Son came out and said "does it have fire ?"
Yes .... I had checked that many times....
So I showed him with the plug I pulled......
No spark.....
What the heck ? (Not the word I used)
Pulled wire from plug and tested with a screwdriver....
Perfect spark......
Pulled all the plugs
THAT HAD BEEN SATURATED WITH GAS WHEN MY TIMING WAS WRONG
put in some others
Cranked it...... Instantly was idling
Lesson....
Just cause you have 'fire' at the wire
Doesn't mean you have it at the plug
.
.
.
[b]'' I think what scares me the most about you guys is that I understand you '' ..... KID
'' lookin good, a little paint adds at least 100hp!'' ....... COOTER
'' well an old guy can dream cant he? ''............ICEMAN
''I would donate organs before selling my slick''........ HOOFBEAT RACER
User avatar
mac
Posts: 134
Joined: December 5, 2013, 9:59 pm
Location: nj
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by mac »

since it ran and then died when given more throttle should we be suspecting vacuum advance? i had similar issues on my 292 as referenced in your thread about distributor timing. have you cranked the engine with a plug wire pulled and verified you have spark there? i just jammed a paper clip in the wire and let it arc against the valve cover. if you have spark there i would look into what slick 4x4 said about fouled plugs from all that cranking.
64 f100 shortbox 292 3spd
User avatar
Toyz
Posts: 4333
Joined: March 22, 2011, 6:23 pm
Location: Baja Houston Taxes
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Toyz »

It would not be unheard of for either advance mechanism to trigger just such a situation. As the advance plate moves, it may have stressed the condenser wire or caused it to short to ground. The distributor advance plate does not move in the same arc as the distributor shaft, so the symptoms you describe could have simply been triggered by an incorrect dwell setting or a loosened set of points in conjunction with increased rpm. A damaged point rubbing block is also a possibility.
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

I pulled the plugs and checked for spark.
I'm not getting any spark from the plugs (trying to let it arc against valve cover). I replaced the voltage regulator, just to make sure....nothing. So I pulled all plugs, cleaned, re-installed....still nothing.

Toys~how do I look for or correct the incorrect dwell time? Do I need to buy another new distributor?

The original cap had point 1 & 5 showing significant wear on the point blocks. Small grooves....this is why I purchased a new cap and rotor.
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
bruceandersson
Posts: 906
Joined: August 12, 2009, 9:44 am
Location: Ohio

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by bruceandersson »

I've had the point gap go bad very quickly with similar results. Try replacing and gapping your gapping your points.
slick4x4
Posts: 5721
Joined: April 19, 2008, 10:01 pm
Location: kipp kansas
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by slick4x4 »

With the key in the run position
Do you have power to the points ?
If you manually open & close them you should get a spark from coil
If not..... Need to address that first
.
.
.
[b]'' I think what scares me the most about you guys is that I understand you '' ..... KID
'' lookin good, a little paint adds at least 100hp!'' ....... COOTER
'' well an old guy can dream cant he? ''............ICEMAN
''I would donate organs before selling my slick''........ HOOFBEAT RACER
User avatar
Toyz
Posts: 4333
Joined: March 22, 2011, 6:23 pm
Location: Baja Houston Taxes
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Toyz »

If you have someone available to turn the switch while you watch, pull the cap and rotor, spin the engine over; you should see a spark at the points as they make and break the ground. Dwell is simply the angular duration in which the points remain closed. It is dependent on point gap, which will change slightly with distributor advance. As Bruce and Pat stated, checking and replacing the points is a good first step.
I did not understand as to whether your replacement distributor is new. If used, several checks need to be performed. Shaft looseness or wobble, point rubbing block wear, and the condition of the point contact surfaces can all be revealing.If you have voltage at the distributor, and the truck did run, making the distributor checks is the next step.
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

Good advice. I will take the cap off and see whats going on. I will replace points and set gap to .017

Yes the distributor is brand new. It fits snug into the hole, and all appears to be tight.

I should have more info when I get home from work.

Thanks a lot!
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

No update. Unfortunately I have to study the next couple nights for my Level III Ultrasonic exam.

I may skip out from studying a bit tonight and see if the gaps are firing. Has my curiosity peaked.
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

Update: And Thanks for all the help!

I passed my exam, and the first thing I did yesterday after it was over it was start working on my slick.

The gap was not set on my new ditro (I never thought to look, thought it came set). So after setting the gap..it fired up on the first try :clap: This made me very happy. After setting the timing by moving the distro I got it to idle.

When test driving it I noticed it sputters when I attempt to accelerate, or when applying gas while driving. I only took her around the block because of this situation.

Does anyone know what may cause this? Do I need to formally time it using a timing light (may be off a tooth?)

I'm just happy to have time again to work on my slick.....ready to take her for a cruise.....well once things are working
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
slick4x4
Posts: 5721
Joined: April 19, 2008, 10:01 pm
Location: kipp kansas
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by slick4x4 »

Cutting out when first accelerating sounds like the accelerator pump
(On the carb) not working
Or possibly just a "cold" motor.... Was it warmed up much before the test drive ?
.
.
.
[b]'' I think what scares me the most about you guys is that I understand you '' ..... KID
'' lookin good, a little paint adds at least 100hp!'' ....... COOTER
'' well an old guy can dream cant he? ''............ICEMAN
''I would donate organs before selling my slick''........ HOOFBEAT RACER
User avatar
Toyz
Posts: 4333
Joined: March 22, 2011, 6:23 pm
Location: Baja Houston Taxes
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Toyz »

Yes, you need to time it ; as well as check/set the dwell if you can locate a dwell meter. check that your mechanical advance is free and working. If the points were not set, pretty good chance little attention was paid to the other dist. details.
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
User avatar
Gary Seymour
Posts: 1192
Joined: September 15, 2006, 5:17 am
Location: Brown County, Indiana
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Gary Seymour »

When tuning an engine with points, you have to remember, dwell or point gap effects timing, effects engine speed (idle adjustment screw), and back to dwell again. I usually go through these adjustments three times and then be satisfied the ignition and timing side of things are spot on.

You have to have a timing light and a dwell/tach.

Any hesitation that occurs after this would tend to be carburetor or vacuum related.

Also be sure the resistor wire (pink) from the ignition switch to the coil is in good shape.

I had a 292 that would die at stop signs, backfire and run rich. After tuning to the best of my abilities and rebuilding the carb, it still wouldn't act right. I found the resistor wire frayed to a few strands during my engine swap. I'm thinking that was the reason for the poor performance- not enough battery voltage to the coil.

Happy tuning! :burp:
Danimal
Posts: 104
Joined: August 11, 2013, 8:55 am
Contact:
United States of America

Re: 240...will not fire???

Post by Danimal »

I went back through the timing and it started to idle better, but still stalls when attempting to drive.

Now this is something I have never experienced....my ignition coil exploded out of the blue, truck not even on. Scared the life out of me. It was 2 months old, Accel chrome super ignition coil. Happened while I had the distro cap off....so now oil all in the inside of my distro.

Cleaned that mess up, put old ignition coil back on. Idles rough, and cannot accelerate.

So I'm going to go back through it, and check the wires and timing as suggested.

Frustrated....yes. Give up...no.
The weathers here, wish you were beautiful.
Post Reply