1988 5 speed in a 1965 ??

[jamesdfo]

Doc: Have a look see at this:)

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34061

[banjopicker66]

Actually, the wrecking yard owner is suggesting that I just remove the 1988 body from the frame and put my '65 body on it instead. But that is probably an even bigger job than just the transmission.

You are correct. The frame is wider and the body sits higher on it.

[64 f100]

A lot depends on what transmission you have now. If you already have a 4 speed, then you have the higher hump in the floor, if not you may have more clearance problems as the hump may not be as tall. I would go with the four speed overdrive as being easiest to convert. The Granada transmission is all cast iron and so are some of the trucks from what I've seen. Prices can run from 75 to unreal, but a realistic figure is about 125 to 250, depending on who has it. Try to get the shifter with it, although I don't think the mounting position will work on our trucks and possibly may neeed to be moved forward. A t5 would be my second choice, but will cost more and you need the tail shaft off of a s10 from what I've heard to move the shifter forward. Otherwise a pre 91 Aod might be your best bet. I have both 4 speed overdrives T5's gear vendors and others most not for sale. I also have T85N 3 speed with overdrive transmissions, which came in some of our trucks. I like my T85N's but these are expensive in working condition, and are hard to find with all the parts to install. Just wondering why you would want the granny low? Are you pulling something?

Rich

[banjopicker66]

Doc, I looked into the 5 speed OD sometime ago, but the modifications for the hydraulic clutch put me off. I don't have any fabrication skills, but if that isn't a barrier to you , then your results could be successful.
I recently changed a clutch in a '96 F-150, 300-6 and 5 speed, so the memory is fresh.
I apologize if I seem pedantic.
1. The clutch itself is not hydraulic. The hydraulic part applies to the throwout bearing actuator that sits inside the bellhousing on the input shaft of the transmission. The pressure plate, clutch disc and flywheel look and work the same as with a mechanical lever. I learned that hydraulic clutches are very reliable. So, serviceability isn't an issue. I found it was actually a little easier to R&R a transmission and clutch with a hydraulic throwout bearing.
2. The hydraulic clutch requires a clutch master cylinder and the line down to the throwout bearing. These are easily and cheaply available new (and used, I reckon).
3. Activating the clutch requires a pedal and linkage between the pedal and the master cylinder. I reckon it might be possible to harvest all of this from the donor truck and make it work for our Slicks - but I don't know how.

It was points #2 and #3 that stopped me. Without fabrication skills, I couldn't figure a way to install the master cylinder for a hydraulic clutch.

By the way, PLEASE make sure that if you get the transmission, get the coupler or slip joint that slides into the tail of the transmission. These can be very hard to find afterwards.

Hope this helps, and doesn't discourage.

PS: The term "Granny Gear" refers to 1st gear in a 4 speed transmission. The gearing is so low that the truck at idle speed can pull itself along, but so slowly as to allow Granny to keep up with it. Needed for heavily laden trucks to start off, especially on a hill.

[ICEMAN6166]

if the 88 is a 6 then take everything
bell housing, clutch pedal rod, slave cylinder, hose and actuator.nab the starter flywheel and the rest of the clutch parts too if they look good
take any brackets that might be helpful too.
might as well take the driveshaft too, if its a bit long you can have it shortened reasonably.
theres conversion u-joints too in case the rear yoke is not the same width

61-64 cabs have the knockout plug in the firewall for the clutch mc, not sure about the 65-66 cab.

[yellodog]

that would be an M5OD, and it doesn't have a "granny" gear, you use 1st to start out. like iceman suggested, get everything from the '88 and it's almost a bolt in. the clutch master cyl should be an easy install(imo), but i don't know if it will fit in your existing hump although i think it would, and you'd have to cut a hole for the shifter. the pre 91 M5OD's had very fine teeth on the syncros which sometimes led to problems with the 5/R syncro cus folks tend to grind them into reverse.

[Leeroy]

The 65/66 do have a knockout in the cab for the clutch, whilst mine is RHD the firewall around the steering column is virtually the same. Ours were factory hydraulic as there was no way to make the mechanical linkage work with the clutch fork over the other side to the pedal.
The parts for it are readily available over your side of the globe, Infact I bought both master and slave hydraulic parts in from macs for 1/10th of the price here including shipping. There are a few posts here on hydraulic conversions, I'd say that's the easy part of any conversion. Oh minus the bl00dy bleeding bit!!

[banjopicker66]

I sure wish I had known all this years ago!
Sounds like it isn't that hard to install a hydraulic clutch.

[Greg D]

Clutch master cylinder option.
Yes, it's a stock single brake master cylinder, with the stock reinforcement plate.
It almost just bolts in.
I'll actually be removing this setup from my 64 since I now have an AOD to install in it.

[Greg D]

The M5OD is a nice piece for a daily driver, nice smooth shifting transmission with a shifter that is appropriate for a truck.
Actually bigger Slicks often came with a hydraulic clutch so it's not much of a change.
The hydraulic clutch has the advantage of being self adjusting too. It's actually less complicated in the long run than the bellcrank setup.
As you can see I used all original type parts in my setup, I was going to use this to actuate a T-5 clutch which is cable operated in it's original application. I went hydraulic because it's simple and reliable.
Like I said, I'm going to pull this off because I am now installing an automatic. I have the lid for the master too, it just wasn't on in the pic.
I have the New Master (not rebuilt), reinforcing plate, pushrod, pedal converted for hydrualic, and fastners and all of it is already matched if you want it. I'm pretty sure it even has a new pad on the pedal.
There is a place that has the snap in piece for the clutch slave to adapt it to flare nuts, Skip knows who it is and I seem to remember it's pretty reasonable too.
Pretty easy conversion actually Doc. If you can make an Electric Porsche you can handle this swap. If you go M5OD be sure to install new shifter rod bore seals, they crack and leak. I seem to remember a cheap upgrade for those too - probably a good idea in your climate.
$30 + shipping which shouldn't be much USPS.
All the parts including the pedal are painted nice too.

[Greg D]

The pedals before I reinstalled them - clutch on the left of course.

[Greg D]

I understand, like I said I'm removing this stuff anyway.
I just gave you first shot since you brought it up.
Drive shaft isn't much of an issue, driveshaft shop can fix one for you in a couple hours.
Transmission, when going for parts like this I usually try to pull them from a vehicle that appears to have been in pretty nice shape before it was wrecked. An otherwise fine looking vehicle that's in the yard is usually there due to a major driveline failure. If it's in a yard there is a reason, I just try to figure out what that reason was when picking my parts.

[Greg D]

The M5OD uses a slave/release bearing combination as you mentioned.
The trans you mentioned is also referred to as an SROD. Has pretty wide ratio spacing.

[yellodog]

M5OD, internal slave cyl, integral bell housing. used in f150's and some rangers, 5 speeds no creeper alum case integral shifter. '88 and newer

SROD, external clutch linkage, seperate bell housing. used in f100's, f150's, and some cars, 4 speeds no creeper. cast iron case(?), integral shifter. '76? to about '84?

ZF, external clutch linkage, integral bellhousing. used in f250's, f350's. 5 speeds no creeper alum case integral shifter. '88 to about '01?

T4OD, external clutch linkage, seperate bellhousing. used in f100's, f150's, some cars. 4 speeds no creeper basically a toploader w/od, cast iron case. '75? to about '80?

just going from memory, not sure of exact dates or models they came in. also, there were some ZF's with creeper and (iirc)some with internal slave cyl. a ZF with external clutch linkage could be used with existing manual linkage instead of hyd. of those 4 transmissions, the only one i'd stay away from is the SROD.

[ICEMAN6166]

I always thought that a hydraulic clutch sat right on the main shaft and pushed directly on the throwout bearing, removing the need for a fork. But this means that I would still have the fork AND the addition of hydraulics

there is such a thing as a hydraulic throwout bearing, no fork needed.

someone in here did it but i dont have the time to search


the 4 speeds ford used like the t98 and the np435 all had removable bell and tail housing.not sure about anything newer.

[ICEMAN6166]

Doc i would consider a 5 spped like this

http://farmington.craigslist.org/pts/4929987116.html




Applications - 87-95 Ford F-150 P/U 2WD 4.9,5.0,5.8L Engine
87-95 Ford F-250 P/U 2WD 4.9,5.0,5.8L Engine


Description - 10 Spline Input Shaft
U-joint Yoke Output
internal Slave Cylinder
Mechanical/Electrical Speedometer
2 wire Reverse Light Switch

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Used Operational 5 Speed Manual Transmission