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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: November 28, 2016, 12:28 pm 
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Do you know the part number on the PowerMaster Ultra torque starter you selected? I need one to clear the headers on my 352. I found a good deal on this one - #9506 XS, which shows as one of the clockable models. It doesn't list the 352 but lists the bigger FE engines so I am assuming it will work.


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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 3, 2016, 12:04 am 
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orangeRcode wrote:
Do you know the part number on the PowerMaster Ultra torque starter you selected? I need one to clear the headers on my 352. I found a good deal on this one - #9506 XS, which shows as one of the clockable models. It doesn't list the 352 but lists the bigger FE engines so I am assuming it will work.


Mine is model number 9406. It only has 3 different clocking positions, if I recall correctly. The 9506 has infini-clock, which I assume means it has more than 3 positions...

Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 6, 2016, 8:10 pm 
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I got a few things painted last night. I didn't get a picture of my chrome saginaw ps pump that I painted with blackout paint. I didn't really want just one "chromed" accessory sticking out like a sore thumb, so I decided to black it out. If you're wondering why I would buy a chrome pump and then paint it - it's because I'm cheap and the chrome saginaw (actually Borgeson) pump was $100 cheaper than the black one for some reason.

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Last edited by MN66 on March 31, 2017, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 11, 2016, 9:01 pm 
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Where's your PS pump mount from? Like that.

SPark

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 14, 2016, 1:59 pm 
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LM14 wrote:
Where's your PS pump mount from? Like that.

SPark


That's a Borgeson bracket for the Saginaw PS pump. I had to have my co-worker make some longer spacers out of aluminum stock, but I think it's going to work well.

https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product. ... =86&page=1

Still try to find one of the longer "low mount" alternator brackets for my 3G alternator. The new alternator has a boss sticking out of the back that I could probably grind off, but even without that in the way I don't have much clearance between the alternator and the head. Any advice on where to find one of the longer low mount brackets?

Thanks,
Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 15, 2016, 1:09 pm 
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Thanks! That just cost me $88.91. Looks a lot better than the one I built. Appreciate the info.

I just mounted my alternator on the stock brackets. It's really close to the head since it's a Powermaster. I spaced all my brackets forward slightly.

SPark

MN66 wrote:
LM14 wrote:
Where's your PS pump mount from? Like that.

SPark


That's a Borgeson bracket for the Saginaw PS pump. I had to have my co-worker make some longer spacers out of aluminum stock, but I think it's going to work well.

https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product. ... =86&page=1

Still try to find one of the longer "low mount" alternator brackets for my 3G alternator. The new alternator has a boss sticking out of the back that I could probably grind off, but even without that in the way I don't have much clearance between the alternator and the head. Any advice on where to find one of the longer low mount brackets?

Thanks,
Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 15, 2016, 9:13 pm 
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LM14 wrote:
Thanks! That just cost me $88.91. Looks a lot better than the one I built. Appreciate the info.

I just mounted my alternator on the stock brackets. It's really close to the head since it's a Powermaster. I spaced all my brackets forward slightly.

SPark


Geez - you must've needed it overnight, mine was $65.30 at Jegs.

I'll try some spacers to see if I can make the stock alternator brackets work. Did it cause any alignment issues with the water pump and crank pulleys?

Regards,
Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 15, 2016, 10:10 pm 
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I just ordered direct from Borgeson.

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Here's my setup now. No alignment issues but never liked my PS mount.

SPark

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1978/80 Ford Fairmont Futura Pro Street. Alston chassis, Art Morrison suspension
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2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 17, 2016, 1:01 pm 
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Cool, what intake are you using? Is this in your unibody?

I just got my alternator bracket sorted out. Looks like I'll need to shorten my alt spacer about a 1/4" to make the pulleys align.

Image

It also looks like I might have some mods to make on my header collectors, I think they're going to land right in the middle of my crossmember. Do these FEs sit pretty level in the engine compartment? That was the assumption I made while measuring.

Image

Another question related to my clutch z-bar setup. Is the something missing below?. Looks like the rod has a d-shaped hole, but I didn't see any sort of bushing, just the wavy washers.

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Last edited by MN66 on March 11, 2017, 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: December 17, 2016, 2:12 pm 
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It's in my uni. I can't address the clutch stuff, running a C6. I'm running the shorty Sanderson headers. I always set my engine level right to left and level all at the carb base while sitting at ride height. I ignore any other locations on the engine.

Moved my PS mount in closer to the engine 1.5" or it was clear out against my inner fender when adjusted all the way out. Want things tucked in as much as possible. Might go another 1" after I stare at it for a while. Had to countersink the hole behind the pump and use a countersunk Allen bolt for that hole. Will trim the bracket once I'm happy with it. Barely clears the fuel pump and water pump in this location.

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SPark

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1978/80 Ford Fairmont Futura Pro Street. Alston chassis, Art Morrison suspension
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2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 25, 2017, 7:24 pm 
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Received my Hedman headers from Jegs yesterday, quick delivery!

I'm not sure if they were damaged in transit, but I was expecting to have then completely coated with silver ceramic, not with big scratches down to bare metal.

Has anyone dealt with Jegs on returns?. I've got plenty of photos with the headers still in the bags. I'm disappointed that they don't take a little more care in packing parts worth nearly $500.

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 25, 2017, 8:48 pm 
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MN66 wrote:
Received my Hedman headers from Jegs yesterday, quick delivery!

I'm not sure if they were damaged in transit, but I was expecting to have then completely coated with silver ceramic, not with big scratches down to bare metal.


I can't say I'd be happy with all those scratches either........ I'd at least call them to discuss the matter. Let us know how/what you end up doing....

BarnieTrk


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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 26, 2017, 9:37 am 
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I decided to spin up my oil pressure this morning and thought I'd see what you guys think.

I started off spinning it with a speed wrench by hand and could feel the pressure come up pretty quickly. I could hear the oil bubbling up and the front rockers showed oil within 10 seconds or so. I continued to crank until my arms got tired and still didn't see oil coming through the rear 4 rockers.

Next I used a drill and ran it counterclockwise for about a minute and then took the photo below. Should that be enough time for all the rockers to be primed? Do the lifters need to get pumped up first? I thought the oil fed through the necked bolts in the rocker stands. Is it possible that my builder installed those in the wrong spot?

In the photo you can see oil at all but the last 3 rockers.

Image

Thanks,
Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 26, 2017, 9:59 am 
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Thanks BarnieTrk,
I'll let you know what they say. Both headers have scratches that I probably could have lived with, but the scratches I showed make me mad because it was just careless packaging/handling that caused it.

Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 26, 2017, 4:33 pm 
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MN66 wrote:
I decided to spin up my oil pressure this morning and thought I'd see what you guys think.

I started off spinning it with a speed wrench by hand and could feel the pressure come up pretty quickly. I could hear the oil bubbling up and the front rockers showed oil within 10 seconds or so. I continued to crank until my arms got tired and still didn't see oil coming through the rear 4 rockers.

Next I used a drill and ran it counterclockwise for about a minute and then took the photo below. Should that be enough time for all the rockers to be primed? Do the lifters need to get pumped up first? I thought the oil fed through the necked bolts in the rocker stands. Is it possible that my builder installed those in the wrong spot?

In the photo you can see oil at all but the last 3 rockers. Thanks, Corey


Corey,
When I rebuilt my 390, I recall it took a while to pump oil up through the lifters and the hollow bolts. Do you have an oil pressure gauge on it while priming - if not, you may want to unscrew the oil pressure sending unit and temporarily install one. If I had to guess, I'd say the oil filter does not have a check valve in it, so it would drain back out and need to be pumped up again. I would suggest trying to prime it again. This time while turning your oil priming shaft (I used an old distributor shaft), have a helper slowly turn the engine over by hand with a socket on the dampener bolt. If you take the sparkplugs out first, it shouldn't be too tough to roll over. By turing the rotating assembly may help get the oil to all places and maybe will get the oil out the rear four (4) rockers.
If still nothing, you may want to pull the rocker shaft bolts (one at a time, inspect, then re-install and re-torque them) just to confirm they are where they need to be. Just my :2cents:

What brand/weight of oil are you using to break it in with?

Let us know how it goes........

BarnieTrk 8)


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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 26, 2017, 7:51 pm 
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He used Brad Penn oil, not sure of the weight. He told me to add ZDDP before starting it for break in.

I'll order an oil pressure gauge when I return my headers and try your suggested steps next weekend.

Thanks for the help!

Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 27, 2017, 8:54 am 
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This is most likely blasphemy, but I bought new water pumps from O"Rielly's for about 20$. Doesn't matter to me as I build driver trucks and not show cars as a general rule. Obviously, from what you are describing of your build, you have not given any consideration to quench. May or may not make any difference to you on your build, and as anything you do, costs more to accomplish. From what little I've studied the subject, it has some to do with overall performance. The trick is to get the piston closer to the head and have compression stay at a lower number. Cutting the deck down is one way of getting closer to the quench but then you run into build to much compression. That's when you start having to worry about head volume and piston dish. I'm sure there are some on this site that can give you more information on how to accomplish this. Most likely not any big secret so to speak, but like me, I don't tell everyone where I catch my fish. When I get around to it, I will be installing a Scat 428 crank in a boat 427 which should leave me with a piston down the hole at about 11 thousandths. I intend to push the compression ratio to about 10 to 1 with aluminum heads. Thought about using a steel shim head gasket to achieve this but then there are other problems to consider. Although I have not read anything that says performance with closer quench numbers than 40 thousandths is better, this is something I would like to know. Need more books and more time.( and money). Good luck with your build, maybe someone else will chime in with good info on how to build with quench.

Rich

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 27, 2017, 9:48 am 
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I think that in order to get oil flowing to each valve, the engine has to turn as well. The oil for the valves is pumped up via the lifters, and I do not think they accept oil at all positions or at least will accept less at some. The reside in a bore and have a recessed band around the middle. The oil is provided to the recess as the lifter moves pass the oil galley. Rotate the engine some and see if the oil gets to the back cylinders.


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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 27, 2017, 5:38 pm 
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64 f100 wrote:
Obviously, from what you are describing of your build, you have not given any consideration to quench. May or may not make any difference to you on your build, and as anything you do, costs more to accomplish. From what little I've studied the subject, it has some to do with overall performance.


Hey Rich,
Early in my post, you're probably correct that I hadn't given much thought to quench. Thankfully my builder walked me through all my options and I came to the conclusion that I was looking for a 9:1 or slightly higher CR. The numbers that he came up with gave me a deck height of 10.145, which I I believe leaves the piston .015 down the hole. The heads cc'd at 71cc and the pistons at 18cc. The head gaskets were .041 compressed height, so my quench should be .056.

bruceandersson wrote:
I think that in order to get oil flowing to each valve, the engine has to turn as well. The oil for the valves is pumped up via the lifters, and I do not think they accept oil at all positions or at least will accept less at some. The reside in a bore and have a recessed band around the middle. The oil is provided to the recess as the lifter moves pass the oil galley. Rotate the engine some and see if the oil gets to the back cylinders.


Bruce,
One of my friends told me the exact same thing - makes sense - I'll give it a shot next weekend.


BarnieTrk,
I talked with Jegs on the phone this morning and the nice lady felt real bad about my damaged headers. She asked if I wanted to keep them and get a small refund or if I wanted my card credited or a replacement shipped out. She also needed to speak with her supervisor to see if any other options were available.

When she came back from speaking to her supervisor, she offered to send a bottle of spray coating so I could "patch them up". Her supervisor explained to her that these coatings are not permanent, and of course could be damaged or scratched. I told her I hoped the temporary coating would last at least long enough to make it from Jegs warehouse to my house, but I don't think she got the joke. I asked her if they sold any headers with "permanent" coating, and she handed me off to her technical guy.

Tech guy again explained how these coatings can be damaged or scratched, so I asked him if they get frequent returns, given the poor packaging job my headers experienced. He said they don't get too many returns and that the headers are typically packaged in foam. I told him that mine were in plastic bags surrounded by some crumpled up paper, obviously clanging together the whole trip. He said he didn't have a good alternative to the Hedman Elites.

I decided to have them ship me another set direct from the factory. Hopefully they spend a little more time packing these. I'll let you know later this week.

Corey

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 Post subject: Re: 390 Build
PostPosted: March 31, 2017, 5:08 pm 
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I've had engines that wouldn't oil without turning the crank slightly once and a while.

Glad to see you using Brad Penn. Good stuff with the right amount of ZDDP for our old flat tappet engines. Ran it in solid lifter race engines for years without a single cam/lifter failure and we ran a lot more RPM and spring pressure than you will see on street stuff. Great choice!

SPark

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1978/80 Ford Fairmont Futura Pro Street. Alston chassis, Art Morrison suspension
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2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!

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