straight axle handling

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justind

straight axle handling

Post by justind »

New to the sight, just bought a 63 and have some questions I cannot seem to find any answers. Looking and flipping the font axle to lower the truck. I know its a truck, I know its not going to be like a new car but just how do they drive lowered and have steering geometry right with sway bar and such? Rode in a friends straight axle car years ago and it had a drop axle with a single buggy spring and it rode nice @ 70mph. Ive also been searching for some other way to add power steering besides the Toyota box.
SteveCanup
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by SteveCanup »

I simply installed 4 1/2 inch lowering mono-springs for the front, purchased a sway bar and quality new gas shocks sized for the lowered front. Total cost was around $750 - 800. Rides very well, no bump steer, etc. It all comes down to how much $$$ you have to spend, how low you want to go, and what ride quality you want. If you can do the work yourself, you will save a bundle. If you can weld you can even look at 'other options' such as crown vic or sub-frame or even the expensive Mustang II IFS suspensions ($$$). There is is ton of info here on this site. There is a thread somewhere on here where someone (actually, several someones) have flipped the front axle. The possibilities are endless...
Mine with recently installed 17 inch Dodge Ram wheels...
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1964 F-100
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justind

Re: straight axle handling

Post by justind »

your truck looks real nice, I read over your build thread the other day. I am a little more curious about the straight axle drops. Are you still using manual steering?
SteveCanup
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by SteveCanup »

I still have manual steering and manual disc brakes. Sid Drapal is the man for a drop axle. I have considered removing mine and sending it to him to be dropped.
1964 F-100
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justind

Re: straight axle handling

Post by justind »

how do lowered straight axle trucks behave on old country road driving? Given the alignment and steering geometry are correct.
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foodstick
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by foodstick »

New kingpins and bushings with modern radial tires will perform a miracle right there !
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Anthony
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by Anthony »

I agree with Foodstick on that. and most definitely a Sids drop axle.. my son put a Sids axle under his 63 with a couple leafs removed. new king pins and and such up front and he traveled on trips in it at 70MPH.... worth the money.. Sid took care of the geometry issues with Zaks truck with what he sent back.. call him and talk to him.. he is a great guy... here is when he bought it to when he sold it...

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charliemccraney
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by charliemccraney »

Not sure what you mean by "old country roads." Stock, lowered, lifted, it's going to ride about the same. On paved roads, it will be pretty smooth. Highway speeds are not problem as long as everything is right and in like new condition. On dirt roads or driveways, it will be quite rough. Lowering will make it handle a little better but it will by no means be good handling.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
Justind
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by Justind »

unfortunately I'm no gm fan by any means, but may end up using a Camaro front stub. seems like the better way to go for my intended use. power steering and disc brakes a must. and that I discovered a way to keep ford bolt pattern makes it easier
bruceandersson
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by bruceandersson »

Keep in mind that if you ever decide to sell the truck a lot of people will not even consider a stubbed frame. You will also have to fab up mount for the radiator support and bumpers. I think a stub is the most labor intensive approach. CV cradle is probably the easiest. A Volare sub would also work and keeps most of the original frame intact.
Justind
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by Justind »

I have been thinking about that. I'm not a fan of crown vic due to the wheel selection and the width of it. Main reason for the Camaro is the fact I will get it for almost nothing and has all ready been rebuilt. Was on a bracket car.
LM14
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by LM14 »

Look into the Industrial Chassis/Dakota front suspension kit. I've done Mustang II and this is way easier, fits nice and those that are already running them love them. Step by step instructions on their web site or in my build thread. The crossmember kit is around $800 bit keep in mind most if it is already welded, comes complete with boxing plates and in pretty much idiot proof installation. I love it so far. Also a wide choice of springs for any engine combination. Another option would be a Jag IFS if they are available around you. I don't have any near me so I went with the Dakota since those parts are cheap and readily available. You can also keep the 5 on 5.5 or go to 5 on 4.5 bolt patterns with common bolt on parts.

The CV to me is too wide. They is a company making a crossmember kit that narrows the track but it's right there cost wise with the IC/Dakota stuff.

SPark
1932 Ford 5 window coupe. 302/C4
1962 8V-390/C6 Unibody Short Bed Soon to be Big Window - The Lincoln that never was
2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!
2007 Mustang GT, 4.6-3V/5 Speed. Only 8680 miles on the clock.

More toys, I need more toys!!!
Justind
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by Justind »

the Dakota seems pretty sweet, but it comes at a large investment. I'm not building a show truck, just a driver. maybe a power tour or pull the camper.
LM14
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by LM14 »

Put a pencil to paper before you decide.

I know my Dakota is less than the last Mustang II I put in my '57 by a long shot and it went in a lot easier. Price everything you want to do to your front suspension (brakes, springs, steering, bushings, lowering, etc.) and see what the numbers are. A set of lowering springs or dropped axle with everything corrected for bump steer will be half the cost of the Dakota kit. Parts are fairly cheap for the Dakota, too. You end up with rack and pinion steering and disc brakes in your choice of bolt patterns, too.

Just a thought.
SPark
1932 Ford 5 window coupe. 302/C4
1962 8V-390/C6 Unibody Short Bed Soon to be Big Window - The Lincoln that never was
2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!
2007 Mustang GT, 4.6-3V/5 Speed. Only 8680 miles on the clock.

More toys, I need more toys!!!
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charliemccraney
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by charliemccraney »

What SPark said.

If you plan on using the truck at all as a truck, then the Dakota kit is what you want because it is a truck suspension. You will not get that with a Camaro swap. You can get it as a MII based kit, but that is even more expensive than the Dakota Kit.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
Justind
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Location: missouri
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by Justind »

Am I missing something? I thought it was like 750 just for the crossmember on their website? Plus a donor truck? Power steering seems to be a pain on straight axle as well
LM14
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by LM14 »

You're not missing anything. The crossmember kit is around $800 but it includes all the bolts, nuts, spacers and boxing plates you will need. I gave a couple hundred for the front suspension on a Dakota in the junk yard. They just cut out the crossmember and handed it to me. At that point you have everything to put it together if you wish. New brake rotors, calipers, etc are pretty cheap at the parts store. You can go as cheap as you are capable of or spend extra money for dropped spindles, big brake kits, different racks, tubular control arms, etc. The choice is yours.

Look at what's being changed:

Brake parts either way (I would assume you go to a disk brake swap), Dakota are cheaper than stock slick parts from what I've bought. find the right donor truck and you may not need anything.

Steering upgrade either way. You want power so you'll be buying a pump and mounts, that part won't change. You will most likely be able to use the Dakota rack with maybe tie rod ends for the IC kit. For PS on a straight axle you'll need a kit to mount it and all the parts to do it. Will cost way more than the Dakota again.

The only disadvantage cost wise on the Dakota deal is you will have to modify or replace your steering column. You may also need to fabricate engine mounts depending on what you currently have. If you have the ability to weld and fabricate, no big deal. If you have to hire it done, this all goes out the window.

I priced a Mustang II, The Crown Vic, MoPar torsion bar and the Industrial Chassis compared to a complete rebuild of my stock front suspension and lowering it. I also read everything I could find and talked to everyone that already had a IC/Dakota kit under their truck (they all loved the way they rode and drove).

Stock front suspension? New bushings, springs and/or dropped mono's, disc brake conversion, PS conversion, corrected geometry for no bump steer and...... when you're done..... you still have a lower version of 1960's straight axle suspension.

The MoPar cross torsion bar is cheap but some don't like the ride quality.

Personally, the MII is my last choice for personal reasons. Been there, done that. Work OK but not my favorite.

The CV is cheap and interesting but it's actually too wide. You can buy narrow crossmembers for them but they are about the same price as the IC/Daklota kit. Again, you are looking at steering column changes.

The Dakota kit with junk yard parts was only $150 or so higher than a complete stock rebuild and a dropped axle or mono leafs to lower it and it would still drive like a straight axle truck. For that $150 I got better steering, ride, brakes and geometry.

Either way you'll be updating the brake master cylinder, some lines, doing some welding and fabricating. Some things you will do no matter which way you go.

That was the basis for my comments. Do the actual math and be TOTALLY honest with yourself of what you want, what you can do by yourself and what you are willing to spend.

I never did the Camaro math, didn't like it for many reasons so I passed on it from the beginning. If you like how a front beam axle drives, go for the modifications. NONE of this is cheap, that's why I simply try to get the most bang for the buck. You have to do what you are capable and comfortable with, simple as that.

SPark
1932 Ford 5 window coupe. 302/C4
1962 8V-390/C6 Unibody Short Bed Soon to be Big Window - The Lincoln that never was
2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!
2007 Mustang GT, 4.6-3V/5 Speed. Only 8680 miles on the clock.

More toys, I need more toys!!!
Justind
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Location: missouri
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by Justind »

I have not put anything in paper yet. I have ruled out the crown vic as its too wide and limits the simple wheel choices. I have began thinking if flipping the front axle. I have heard the 73-79 brakes and rotors are supposed to swap on. If so those parts are way cheap. several seem to think putting a front clip will kill it. If done right and made to look right I don't see the big deal, it is hot rodding. I have seen some really crappy swaps before that I wouldn't take for nothing.
LM14
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by LM14 »

I think the '73-79 swap you are thinking of is for the '65 and up twin I beam trucks, not the older solid axle trucks. You're going to be dealing with something more like this:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Deluxe-Di ... ,4623.html

If you flip the front axle, do your homework. You will have to add material or blocks to the axle to keep it from rotating since you will loose your axle pads. Also have to consider how this will change your caster and allow for that. There have been some really nice front axle flips shown thru the years. The other thing you will have to do is deal with the newly introduced bump steer by moving the steering box up from what I have seen/read.

What bolt pattern do you want to run?

The search function in this group can bring up a lot of interesting options.

SPark
1932 Ford 5 window coupe. 302/C4
1962 8V-390/C6 Unibody Short Bed Soon to be Big Window - The Lincoln that never was
2013 F150 Super Crew Eco Boost 4x4
2015 Ford Edge for the little lady, because she said so!
2007 Mustang GT, 4.6-3V/5 Speed. Only 8680 miles on the clock.

More toys, I need more toys!!!
64 f100
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Re: straight axle handling

Post by 64 f100 »

I like the old straight axle trucks as is, when in good condition. There are several ways to go about fixing yours for what you need. First make sure everything is in good condition, king pins , spring bushings and frame bushings , tie rod ends etc.. As to power steering, several ways of installing it on these trucks besides the Toyota box. Rack and pinion for one, either standard or power, original Ford power steering, and I've seen the 70's f150 boxes adapted, but don't like how these hang down below the frame. Truth is, what you want to do by lowering the truck limits possibilities but is doable. I just don't agree with it. Your taking the truck out of the mix and limiting it's use. Sorry, your choice, I'm just not a fan of ruining a truck. I like my trucks driver friendly, but as a truck. I will say that a disc brake upgrade on the front end is needed, as is a better steering box and setup. In addition, power steering would also be nice along with sway bars and panhard bar and or watts link.

Rich
1961 F350
1964 Galaxie convertable
1964 flairside, style side, and longbed
1965 Ranger, and shortbed
1966 long bed, and shortbed
A few parts trucks also
1991 Capri
2011 F250
2004 Lexus
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