4V FE carb spacer

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Mojave922
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4V FE carb spacer

Post by Mojave922 »

So I'm fitting a '62 Tbird 390 into my '65 F100 and trying to retrofit PCV. The Tbird used a road draft tube, but that tube won't fit between the motor and firewall on the F100. So, I'd like to set up a PCV system with the motor. I have some '65 FE valve covers that will work for a PCV system.

That said, the Tbird's 4V carb spacer (C2SE-9A589-A) has a molded fitting in the back as if for a PCV hose (like maybe Ford had plans for that), but it's filled solid. It would have to be drilled out. Would you guys recommend that, or try to find a later FE or aftermarket spacer with fitting?

I know the FE spacers are heated with engine coolant. Is there a real benefit to that? I live in a mild climate, if its purpose is for extreme cold.
Last edited by Mojave922 on April 24, 2017, 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
David

65 F100 swb (352 3 spd manual, not running)

Previous rides:
69 Bronco, completed frame-off restoration
07 Kawasaki KLR650
92 Acura Integra GSR
65 Mustang 2+2 A-code
67 Mustang coupe C-code
slick4x4
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by slick4x4 »

My train of thought on the spacers with coolant
... They definitely help warm things up in cold weather...
But I've often wondered...
Do they help "pull away" excess heat during the summer ?
I've heard of carbs "boiling" gas after they shut down in the summer
Wonder if the spacer helps stop that problem ?
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[b]'' I think what scares me the most about you guys is that I understand you '' ..... KID
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DCarr
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by DCarr »

I used to live in Laramie , Wyo. at 7200 ft.& cold winters , now live in Az at 5000 ft. & milder winters and I have never used a heated carb spacer. It just has not been a problem and you don't have the risk of overheated fuel. It will definitely hurt horsepower to preheat the intake charge. If you are going to use the stock Ford carb , you can drill out the nipple for PCV. Most Holley carbs that will bolt on the tbird engine already have a PCV nipple in the baseplate.
Tune For Maximum Smoke ___________________________________ 64 F100 Longsmoothie 65 Mustang Fastback
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Mojave922
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by Mojave922 »

DCarr wrote:I used to live in Laramie , Wyo. at 7200 ft.& cold winters , now live in Az at 5000 ft. & milder winters and I have never used a heated carb spacer. It just has not been a problem and you don't have the risk of overheated fuel. It will definitely hurt horsepower to preheat the intake charge. If you are going to use the stock Ford carb , you can drill out the nipple for PCV. Most Holley carbs that will bolt on the tbird engine already have a PCV nipple in the baseplate.
DCarr I'm a fan of the area where you live. I taught school there in the '90s and loved that 5,000 foot climate. Had a house in Prescott Valley.

I'm thinking I'll drill the nipple. Hopefully that will put me in business. I suppose I could just disconnect the coolant running through the spacer, right? I'd rather use what I've got than buy something (especially new) if not necessary.
David

65 F100 swb (352 3 spd manual, not running)

Previous rides:
69 Bronco, completed frame-off restoration
07 Kawasaki KLR650
92 Acura Integra GSR
65 Mustang 2+2 A-code
67 Mustang coupe C-code
DCarr
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Joined: September 17, 2008, 11:49 pm
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by DCarr »

Yes , you can just bypass the spacer and go directly to the heater box with the hose. It also cleans up the look of the engine. You will love how that 390 works .
We looked at Prescott Valley when we were 1st house hunting. It has changed so much since the 90s - too busy for us now. Chino Valley is a little more laid back.
Tune For Maximum Smoke ___________________________________ 64 F100 Longsmoothie 65 Mustang Fastback
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charliemccraney
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by charliemccraney »

If the engine did not originally have a PCV system, then it is not a PCV port on the spacer. It is merely a vacuum port. Make sure it will distribute the PCV air evenly for all cylinders. Otherwise, it may present tuning difficulties.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
DCarr
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by DCarr »

Thank you Charlie , you are correct. The bottom of the Carb spacer should have a groove to connect all the throttle openings to evenly distribute the PCV charge. You may want to find a spacer from a PCV equipped 4bbl 390
Tune For Maximum Smoke ___________________________________ 64 F100 Longsmoothie 65 Mustang Fastback
chris401
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by chris401 »

Mojave922 wrote:So I'm fitting a '62 Tbird 390 into my '65 F100 and trying to retrofit PCV. The Tbird used a road draft tube, but that tube won't fit between the motor and firewall on the F100. So, I'd like to set up a PCV system with the motor. I have some '65 FE valve covers that will work for a PCV system.

That said, the Tbird's 4V carb spacer (C2SE-9A589-A) has a molded fitting in the back as if for a PCV hose (like maybe Ford had plans for that), but it's filled solid. It would have to be drilled out. Would you guys recommend that, or try to find a later FE or aftermarket spacer with fitting?

I know the FE spacers are heated with engine coolant. Is there a real benefit to that? I live in a mild climate, if its purpose is for extreme cold.
Look on mustangteck of how the latter PCV spacers designed. I have drilled the C4AE spacer for PCV, it pulls draft on the primary bores. Some early designs are configured in different ways. If I remember from the post on fordfe.com PCV was an option in 62 but not common. That is interesting that your engine has an undrilled alternator boss and an undrilled PCV spacer. Did you end up grinding the alternator adapter instead of the block?

It has been my experience with the Ford spacers that the PCV seem to work best with the front draft only design. At one time I had a C5AE Galaxie carb spacer I pulled the rotten coolant nipples out of and drove in some small plugs.
Chris
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Mojave922
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by Mojave922 »

chris401 wrote:
Mojave922 wrote:So I'm fitting a '62 Tbird 390 into my '65 F100 and trying to retrofit PCV. The Tbird used a road draft tube, but that tube won't fit between the motor and firewall on the F100. So, I'd like to set up a PCV system with the motor. I have some '65 FE valve covers that will work for a PCV system.

That said, the Tbird's 4V carb spacer (C2SE-9A589-A) has a molded fitting in the back as if for a PCV hose (like maybe Ford had plans for that), but it's filled solid. It would have to be drilled out. Would you guys recommend that, or try to find a later FE or aftermarket spacer with fitting?

I know the FE spacers are heated with engine coolant. Is there a real benefit to that? I live in a mild climate, if its purpose is for extreme cold.
Look on mustangteck of how the latter PCV spacers designed. I have drilled the C4AE spacer for PCV, it pulls draft on the primary bores. Some early designs are configured in different ways. If I remember from the post on fordfe.com PCV was an option in 62 but not common. That is interesting that your engine has an undrilled alternator boss and an undrilled PCV spacer. Did you end up grinding the alternator adapter instead of the block?

It has been my experience with the Ford spacers that the PCV seem to work best with the front draft only design. At one time I had a C5AE Galaxie carb spacer I pulled the rotten coolant nipples out of and drove in some small plugs.
Howdy Chris, I did wind up grinding the block. The manufacturer of the adapter (Larry of CRAP fame) was at a loss, too, said he'd never seen such a thing. Now the adapter fits well.

If I drilled out the nipple on the spacer, it would indeed feed into only the secondary venturis. Couldn't post a pic but here's a link with pics:

http://www.mustangtek.com/Spacers/C2SE-9A589-A.html

I saw on later designs like 390GT and 428 that they feed into the primaries like you mentioned, but I didn't see any that fed into all four venturis evenly like mentioned above.

I guess I know what I'll be looking for at PATE this weekend, ha ha
David

65 F100 swb (352 3 spd manual, not running)

Previous rides:
69 Bronco, completed frame-off restoration
07 Kawasaki KLR650
92 Acura Integra GSR
65 Mustang 2+2 A-code
67 Mustang coupe C-code
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Mojave922
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by Mojave922 »

Would another spacer fit, such as from a 4V small block Ford?

http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/4vcarbspace.html

I realize it wouldn't have the heating feature.

Also, the '62 Tbird spacer is wedge-shaped, higher in front. Any particular reason Ford did that?
David

65 F100 swb (352 3 spd manual, not running)

Previous rides:
69 Bronco, completed frame-off restoration
07 Kawasaki KLR650
92 Acura Integra GSR
65 Mustang 2+2 A-code
67 Mustang coupe C-code
chris401
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by chris401 »

Mojave922 wrote:Would another spacer fit, such as from a 4V small block Ford?

http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/4vcarbspace.html

I realize it wouldn't have the heating feature.

Also, the '62 Tbird spacer is wedge-shaped, higher in front. Any particular reason Ford did that?
Many others here know the pre 58 Thunderbirds. The FE era Thunderbird engine sat almost completely flat until 69 or 70? The intake has a 6° forward slant to make the carburetor sit almost flat in the other vehicles. The spacer cancles out the 6° forward slant. As far as I know the Thunderbird 3 Deuce intake was the only flat Thunderbird specific. The Galaxie version had the slant built in.
Chris
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Mojave922
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by Mojave922 »

chris401 wrote:
Mojave922 wrote:Would another spacer fit, such as from a 4V small block Ford?

http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/4vcarbspace.html

I realize it wouldn't have the heating feature.

Also, the '62 Tbird spacer is wedge-shaped, higher in front. Any particular reason Ford did that?
Many others here know the pre 58 Thunderbirds. The FE era Thunderbird engine sat almost completely flat until 69 or 70? The intake has a 6° forward slant to make the carburetor sit almost flat in the other vehicles. The spacer cancles out the 6° forward slant. As far as I know the Thunderbird 3 Deuce intake was the only flat Thunderbird specific. The Galaxie version had the slant built in.
Since my engine is definitely nose high due to engine mounts, I should be okay with a flat 4V spacer then, correct?

Will a SBF spacer work on a BBF?
David

65 F100 swb (352 3 spd manual, not running)

Previous rides:
69 Bronco, completed frame-off restoration
07 Kawasaki KLR650
92 Acura Integra GSR
65 Mustang 2+2 A-code
67 Mustang coupe C-code
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charliemccraney
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by charliemccraney »

You should have a square bore manifold. That means that any square bore carb spacer should fit the manifold. It doesn't matter what it came from or who makes it, if it is for a square bore manifold it will fit.

However, some carburetors have unique sealing requirements, which may make it difficult to find a spacer that fits the carb, depending on the carb you are using.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
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Mojave922
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by Mojave922 »

Thanks Charlie, I was assuming a 4V spacer off of the more common Windsor motors might be a little easier to obtain. The carb I'm using is a Ford with tag "C2SF B A 2GA". Do you think I should look for an FE spacer, given the sealing requirements you mentioned? We'll see what PATE has to offer this weekend. Does $50-$75 seem fair for one in good condition? Looks like that's the asking price online.
David

65 F100 swb (352 3 spd manual, not running)

Previous rides:
69 Bronco, completed frame-off restoration
07 Kawasaki KLR650
92 Acura Integra GSR
65 Mustang 2+2 A-code
67 Mustang coupe C-code
chris401
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Location: Waco, Texas
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Re: 4V FE carb spacer

Post by chris401 »

Mojave922 wrote:Thanks Charlie, I was assuming a 4V spacer off of the more common Windsor motors might be a little easier to obtain. The carb I'm using is a Ford with tag "C2SF B A 2GA". Do you think I should look for an FE spacer, given the sealing requirements you mentioned? We'll see what PATE has to offer this weekend. Does $50-$75 seem fair for one in good condition? Looks like that's the asking price online.
Good thing he brought that up. Somewhere around 68 or so the PCV nipple pad on the intake changed. That void on the bottom side of the spacer got shorter and a newer spacer may not seal because of the hose thickness. The void on the old spacers extend past the newer intake pad causing a big vacuum leak. Your Thunderbird spacer is probably worth more than a regular spacer due to its age and it not being drilled out for PCV. The spacer I am running now is a C4OE casting without the long void on the bottom.

http://www.mustangtek.com/Spacers/C4OE-9A589.html

I would trade even on the spacers. They useually go for $20 to $40 on the fordfe classifieds.
Chris
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