351w pulley problems reviseted

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64 f100
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351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by 64 f100 »

Some of you may or may no have seen a previous post of mine about pulleys for a 351w. My main problem is I'm using a 4 bolt crank balancer and a D00E - C crank pulley. I have both 2 3/8 and 2 3/4 deep water pump pulleys. The 2 3/4 pulley is about 1/8 inch to deep to match up to the crank pulley. I want to run the conventional fan and not electric . What I'm finding on two different 351w's is that those are running the same setup and actually have the same problem. One is in a truck and one is in a car. The only ones I've actually seen that match up are earlier models. I have to ask if anyone else has noticed this with the 4 bolt balancer pulleys? Was there always a problem with this or what. I won't run something this far off, and am working on a way around the problem.
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charliemccraney
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by charliemccraney »

Can you add a 1/8" spacer? There are spacers made for aligning water pump pulleys.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
64 f100
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by 64 f100 »

OF course I could, but that only leaves about 1/4 inch of the water pump shaft sticking out for the fan spacer and part of that is tapered. I would not trust it to keep the fan spacer In place and fan might work loose. I would have to use an electric fan which pulls a lot of juice and frankly I don't like those. I may be forced to this but only as a last resort.
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charliemccraney
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by charliemccraney »

1/4" is plenty. All that portion of the shaft does is ensure that things are centered. The bolts hold it on. If the bolts are adequately tight, it will be perfect.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
64 f100
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by 64 f100 »

I ended up with a spacer for the professional product harmonic balancer I bought the moved the crank pulley back 1/16 inch so I was able to get buy with 1/16 spacer on the water pump. I was not happy with the fan pulley and fan out 1/8 inch but will be a little happier with this setup. Still thinking of having the spacer turned down another 1/16 but for now it is better. The fan hub is 4 inches long and then will have the fan on it. Not happy about that either, as this engine will turn up around 6,000 rpm on occasion. I may end up eliminating the fan after all, and going electric. However I may just build a shroud and move the fan all the way back to the pulley. I've seen what a fan will do to the engine compartment and the hood when it comes off, not a pretty sight. For now I am ok with the way things are. Will see how it works once I get it started. Hopefully this week. Today, I got the harmonic balancer changed out and the crank spacer and pulley back on and that part lined up. Tomorrow I will have to change out the power steering pump pulley for one that will move the belt back to line up better with the crank pulley.
I've been working on getting the Falcon consul to fit the way I want it to. This was a Falcon consul of the same style that was used in the Ranger for my grandsons truck. It had been butchered before or I would not have done what I did with it. I've cut it down so it sets lower and mounted it so the shifter comes up thru the center of flat area on the front of the consul. Have not installed a shifter boot or even ordered on yet, but that is on the agenda next along with bulding a shift arm. I have the consul stripped of all it's parts to do the cutting and fitment. Looks decent but not my best work. I will get pictures and try to post those when I am done. Still lots to do, and I have not done the bed yet. Be glad to get this done and out of my way and get back on my own projects.
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by Masterguns »

Engine masters had a pretty interesting video a while back on youtube about different fan setups on a small block engine. I believe it was a 30 horsepower difference between electric fan vs engine fan. was enough to convince me, that's 30 horses I don't have to find some where else. check it out.
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64 f100
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by 64 f100 »

Engine masters? Will have to search and see if I can find that. Although this truck is for my grandson and I have deliberately choked the engine down in horsepower with the cam selection. HP should be at about 400 the way it is. He is 27 so I'm not to concerned but we nearly lost him in an accident last year. He was riding with a friend and got thrown out of a jeep and down into a ravine . Sever damage to his head and back. The other side of this is that along with another investment of about 200 for the fan setup and relay etc. is the drain on the charging system. I have one truck with an electric fan, and frankly I am not to satisfied with it. Draw in amperage is significant and the engine tends to run hotter than I like.
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charliemccraney
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by charliemccraney »

The mechanical fan should be fine for 6000 rpm. Some of them have stickers stating the RPM they are rated for. I've had mine to 6000 RPM quite a few times, using a 3 or 4 inch spacer. However, you have to realize that the water pump often turns at a different speed than the crank because of the difference in pulley diameter. The RPM the fan is rated for is fan RPM, which is not necessarily the same as engine RPM.

Electric is the way to go. The power consumed by a mechanical fan will be the same, no matter the power output of the engine. That means that it can be quite a big gain on a low powered engine but a very small gain on a high powered engine. Electric fans cool just fine. They've been in use by major manufacturers for over 35 years. It's a tried and true technology.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
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Gota64
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by Gota64 »

64 f100 wrote: He was riding with a friend and got thrown out of a jeep and down into a ravine . Sever damage to his head and back.
I took that ride with my Dad back in 2001 the Saturday before Easter. Pulling a little trailer that the load shifted to far to the back. Started down a little hill and the 5 - 5 gallon buckets of dirt lifted the rear of the Jeep. No one wearing seat belts. 3 rolls, at least one flip end over end, into a tree, ejected down 20 - 30' ravine into a creek, then the jeep rolled down the hill on top of us. We were blessed only bumps, bruises, and sores. I've not been in a jeep project since. Wasn't the jeeps fault at the end of the day but very unstable vehicles.

Research told me that this is called the roll-of-death, when I found out it was common enough to have a name...that was it for me. Hope your grandson is doing well.
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ponypoor
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by ponypoor »

Something else to consider is Ford has 2 different snout lengths on the small block water pumps. When I was setting up the small block in my 64 Ranchero I was lucky enough to get everything, pulleys, accessory brackets, etc off a 1985 E150 with a 351W. I seem to recall having to swap the water pump and using one for an 85 Mustang 5.0 to get everything lined up.
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bruceandersson
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by bruceandersson »

I've never tried this, but couldn't you have the water pump flange re-pressed to the correct location?
64 f100
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by 64 f100 »

My problem would still have been the same as spacing it. The pulley would have had to have been moved forward resulting in less of the snout sticking out, plus most likely more expensive.

As to the electric fans, I agree that the factory setups work well, but we are talking aftermarket and God only knows where and what quality these are. More concerned about draw on the electrical system. I know the one in my 66 4x4 will drop the voltage gauge when running at least a whole volt. I have had some experience with the high output alternators, and had conversations with rebuilders. Consensus is that these won't hold up as well, and I have a couple of these alternators that prove this.

Thank you for the kind words about my grandson. He was asleep when thrown from the jeep when his friend hit a bridge, and did not have his seat belt on. The jeep did not roll. He was found in the water in the ravine badly hurt. It scrambled his brains somewhat, and he is now not as confidant as he was and has trouble making decisions, but has gotten better as time has gone along. He was recently riding in an Uber ride with another friend out partying and they got T-boned and hit his head again, but seems OK and no worse than before. The whole thing has shaken him up pretty badly, and he had made up his mind to sell his motorcycle.
As to how I think about this, I can only relate something that happened when I was about 10 years old, and living at Watkins Glenn New York in an RV park on the end of the lake. There was another couple with some young children there. The youngest boy had a near death experience by drowning, but came though just fine, but a week or two later he was in the back of their Penn Yan boat with his brother and the engine was idling. A drunk friend of theirs jumped in the boat cast off and thru the motor wide open, the boat flipped over and again nearly drowned both boys. Their mother had a fit and they left the next day to go to her parents farm. A couple of days later the youngest boy was climbing a ladder in the barn and fell and died. I love my grandson, and would hate to see him leave this life, but sometimes it is just the way things are.
Life is a series of happy and painful events, some better and some worse than others. I am thankful he is still with us and especially happy for my daughter and her husband that he is still alive.
64 f100
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Re: 351w pulley problems reviseted

Post by 64 f100 »

I think there are actually 3 different length water pumps, maybe more. The difference between early and later water pumps is a lot and I only need 1/8 inch for the pump I have now. The early pumps had a hose connection for the passenger side, and the later had drivers side. Although, I have not had any experience in whether the pulleys will work on either pump, I have no idea without mocking one up as to whether there are clearance problems. In addition, since I started trying to figure my problem out, I have found there are differences in the 3 bolt style harmonic balancers with one kind having a ridge extending out of the balancer the pulley mounts over and one where there is not extension and the raised ridge is built into the pulley to keep it centered on the balancer. Actually, what is needed is listing of all the pulleys and matching components . Lots of leg work and I think most, once they have their problem solved, tend to let it go. I've also noticed some discrepancies in where exactly things go from one style to another.
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