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 Post subject: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 1:00 pm 
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The brass proportion valve/bloc that was on the 65 I'm working on had seized up inside and I discovered it when I broke the plastic brake switch. I ordered a new block. It arrived, I installed it, but rear output leaked. Tightened slowly, still leaks. Removed block, and the steel flared portion of the brake line gouged and distorted the brass tapered part in the block. I used a dremel tool to smooth out the gouge and reflared the tube. Still leaks.

I go to chain Auto parts store, get a 1/4" to 3/16" flared adapter. This will require cutting the brake line, and using a 3/16" flared nut. I figured if the adapter leaks at the block I can solder it to seal the bad connection and have a "new" end to attach the flared brake line.

Here's where things get crazy. The store has a steel nut and a brass tubing nut both labeled exactly the same. Brass nut fits, the steel is too big, I used dial calipers in the store. I point it out to the employee who goes and checks the premade steel lines. He returns and says they don't fit either, but you need to use a steel distribution block.

I have to admit, I'm not a brake expert, but something is just not right here. I even checked the other steel 3/16" nut on the shelf and it was too big, yet too small to fit the 1/4" threads. I am concerned the brass flared nut won't seal well.

Can anyone tell me why a 3/16" steel nut is not the same as brass? Has anyone used brass flared nuts with success. I figure I've got one chance to get this right before the brake line is too short to reach the block.

Maybe there was a whole run of mislabeled 3/16" steel nuts.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 1:27 pm 
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Joined: January 24, 2017, 9:52 am
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Location: Tellico Plains,Tenn
Are you sure theres no metric in the mix?


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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 1:58 pm 
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These parts all fit and seem to work together.

Image

Image

I think the 3/16" label on the steel nut packaging was misleading as it referred only to the size of the brake line; and I didn't see any reference to the thread size on the box.

I just hope the small brass flared nut will hold up.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 2:40 pm 
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After bathing in brake fluid draining from the loosened lines and hack sawing the brake line off to put the brass flared nut on, the high quality flaring tool I have now won't keep enough grip on the brake line to complete the flare.

Time to walk away from this.

I don't think there is any "smiley" or other emojis that can relay the appropriate level of frustration here.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 3:15 pm 
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I did a couple lines on my 350 last summer,same here on gripping the line....removed the cheap fastening bar and used a solid punch through the hole with a short pipe extension......and tighten to the max........something else I encountered,the end oh the line as to absolutely parallel to the tool or the flare will not seat properly....

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 8:41 pm 
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Thanks for the advice Mr. Jones, I will give it a try tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 9:49 pm 
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I spent days fiddling with my brakes and finally got it. Sometimes you just gotta walk away.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 11, 2018, 10:23 pm 
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The double flaring tool I got from autozone worked perfect
And it was free rental

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 13, 2018, 10:25 pm 
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Shipwrecked - Fiddling with brakes is not in the repertoire for a banjo player :wink:

I'm glad you got the air out of your brakes and the leaks stopped. When I set my mind to something I can be stubborn like a mule, but you were right, it was time to leave it alone.

Mr. Jones - I used a flat file to dress the clamp bar down, and as Jerry Clower would say tightened the nuts "forevermore some kind of tight"! The tube started to buckle over for the first part of the flare, then slipped again. I cleaned the slippery brake fluid off everything but no go.

Slick 4x4 - borrowing another flare tool from a buddy at work, will try again tomorrow night. If that fails, will try Auto parts rental/borrow from town.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 18, 2018, 7:09 pm 
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Borrowed another flaring tool. That one slipped too. Ended up pulling the long brake line out of the frame rail. Used part of borrowed flare tool and part of mine locked down in the vise and got a decent flared end. Put the brake line back in with the adapter and smaller flared nut. Tightened, small leak. Tightened more, leak stopped. Started bleeding brakes, but will need more fluid to finish the job.

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 Post subject: Re: Brakes - HELP!
PostPosted: February 23, 2018, 11:35 am 
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9Fingers wrote:
The brass proportion valve/bloc that was on the 65 I'm working on had seized up inside and I discovered it when I broke the plastic brake switch. I ordered a new block. It arrived, I installed it, but rear output leaked. Tightened slowly, still leaks. Removed block, and the steel flared portion of the brake line gouged and distorted the brass tapered part in the block. I used a dremel tool to smooth out the gouge and reflared the tube. Still leaks.

I go to chain Auto parts store, get a 1/4" to 3/16" flared adapter. This will require cutting the brake line, and using a 3/16" flared nut. I figured if the adapter leaks at the block I can solder it to seal the bad connection and have a "new" end to attach the flared brake line.

Here's where things get crazy. The store has a steel nut and a brass tubing nut both labeled exactly the same. Brass nut fits, the steel is too big, I used dial calipers in the store. I point it out to the employee who goes and checks the premade steel lines. He returns and says they don't fit either, but you need to use a steel distribution block.

I have to admit, I'm not a brake expert, but something is just not right here. I even checked the other steel 3/16" nut on the shelf and it was too big, yet too small to fit the 1/4" threads. I am concerned the brass flared nut won't seal well.

Can anyone tell me why a 3/16" steel nut is not the same as brass? Has anyone used brass flared nuts with success. I figure I've got one chance to get this right before the brake line is too short to reach the block.

Maybe there was a whole run of mislabeled 3/16" steel nuts.
The difference between brass and steel fittings is probably in the tubing wall thickness. The same differences are found in plumbing.

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