Nova subframe

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 27, 2006, 2:32 pm

im looking into doin a nova subframe on the 61 since its alot cheaper than ps and disc brake kits but does anyone know anywhere to change down the rear bolt pattern to either the chevy style or get a kit where i can swap the front and rear to 5 on 4.5. ill prolly need a drum brake since its cheaper but rear disc would be nice since it would look better and maybe i could afford this now since i dont have to spend so much on the front.any got any ideals i cant seem to rem seeing a kit for the rear

Truckfarmer · Post by **Truckfarmer** » October 27, 2006, 5:35 pm

Unless you are extremely proficient in doing frame surgery, I would not suggest the Nova subframe! I have a Camaro subframe under my 56 panel truck. Mine was installed by a guy that had done over 20 of them before. Still scared the heck out of me. I wondered for a long time if it was right. There are WAY too many things that can go wrong. Then, putting the front part of the F100 frame back on was worse than the IFS surgery.
I would suggest a Ford Aerostar, Jaguar sedan, or Chrysler torsion bar (in that order) long before I would suggest a subframe swap. I am experienced in all 4 of these and I hope you look deeply into this before acting.
Go to the following link (www.ford-trucks.com), click on the articles/tech button and read the 12 articles on front suspensions. The articles are well written and will answer a lot of questions. They are written for 53-60 Ford trucks but the information will apply to a Slick as the frames are the same width.

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 27, 2006, 8:43 pm

ill check them out but i was gonna do this bc i can get it pretty cheap from a friend who also done this same swap on his 55.his uncle done his and turned out fine but no i wasnt even gonna attempt it myself.

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 27, 2006, 9:16 pm

on these 80 model grand marquis did any of them come with 351w?those looks like would be easier since surely some of them came with a windsor and on the 9 inch rearend im guessing it wouldnt be wide enough to use under a truck?id like the later style rear since disc brake kits for them are cheaper

mikecarson · Post by **mikecarson** » October 28, 2006, 5:44 am

The Grand Marquis is the same as the LTD/Crown Vic, which is a popular swap. Same wheel base as a short Slick.

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 28, 2006, 7:37 am

so which one do you all recommend i think i about decided against nova because looks like ill be able to get a whole ford car for about what he wouldve wanted for that sub.theres a whole 92 aerostar in newspaper today for 250 or i could look around for a grand marquis that would have already have windsor mounts.

Post by **Greg D** » October 28, 2006, 8:36 am

The best option is to box the frame in the front and use the crossmember from a 04 or newer crown victoria police car. It has an aluminum crossmember, power rack & pinion, tubular upper & lower control arms, and get this, after you box your frame it bolts on! They seem to go for about $500, definately the easiest front end swap out there and any of the others will cost the same by the time you rebuild the old subframe.

mikecarson · Post by **mikecarson** » October 28, 2006, 9:01 am

But, the aluminum cross you mention is set up for the Modular engine, not Windsor. Probably is the easiest, are there adaptors(?) to put a Windsor engine on it?

The cheapest is probably the older CV/Grand Marquis (got mine free), but there are body mods involved.

Post by **Greg D** » October 28, 2006, 11:30 am

Adding towers to the frame for a windsor wouldn't be that tough, I don't know if the crossmember has towers on it. Building MM towers would be a better setup than a adaptor crossmember anyway, less clutter on the chassis. JC's Uni has a similar setup.

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » October 28, 2006, 4:15 pm

It's a hard decision when coming to sub-frames,,,

There is a lot out there so I would talk to somebody that has a swap that actually put miles on & when I mean miles say around 20,000 & up & see how they feel about in all conditions of traveling,,, We use the Camaro for many reasons it has front steer so when getting a column in the truck it come out gradually, Some of the Fords box is behind the wheels & have seen some with 3 joints trying to get it so it don't bind up,, Another good thing about the Camaro is that we used the Mark V rear end with disc. brakes under these trucks & is 5 on 5 bolt pattern,Then change the spindle assembly to install the big GM Or Chevy Truck spindles to it which gives it also 5 on 5 with the bigger Rotors also, so then you will have 5 on 5 all the way around,,, Also the Tie-rods & A-Arm bushings are all the same between the 2 different models, I think the 73-76 Monte Carlo is the same also on the sub-frame,, Save the brackets for the emergency brakes on the rear end so you can put your original cables through to hook up... Weld the saddles back on in the same place so you can put your spring suspension back on & DON'T Forget to get the pinion angle back right.. The Mark V is a 9" rear end with 28 spline but usually comes with a very,very high gear my 56 panel had a 2:23 gear under it so you might want to change the gear ratio.. I have never been in favor of mixed match between the 2 Mfg.'s but driving one for a while changeg my mind & also had more engine clearance to work with... Now remember this is something we have done so it's only my opinion on this swap & I know there is several out there on different swaps to try so good luck on hunting on a swap that you feel comfortable with & in your budjet :2cents:

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 28, 2006, 4:19 pm

that 04 sounds like a good way to go is there any write ups or some pics on this?also would you just get the column from the car that the crossmember comes from?

bit · Post by **bit** » October 28, 2006, 5:28 pm

Well we have a ltd uni that has been to the mtns twice and the beach twice to the race city fun 2 times and so on and so forth and it has preformed very well.

Bit

Post by **Greg D** » October 28, 2006, 6:34 pm

Here is a pic gallery from FTE (dare I say that here?) that shows the install. You could probably modify the column from the vic but there are plenty of options on columns. http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery ... umid=16991

GLindley · Post by **GLindley** » October 28, 2006, 6:41 pm

I'm still surprised that you can link to anything on FTE.
Uh-oh, I may just have gotten myself "banned" from that site for mean spirited responses!

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 28, 2006, 6:43 pm

thanks for those pics ive got those saved now for reference.im leaning that way its a little more upfront but with everything being so new about the only thing that might need replacing is brake pads and looks like a pretty simple install compared to others.how do you determine where to place the k member on the frame?what would you suggest on a column?Yea im not a big fan of fte either i go over there for some tech stuff that i cant find here but there just too much about making money while you all are more about helping someone restore a truck

Post by **Greg D** » October 28, 2006, 6:55 pm

As for placement I would put on my front clip (or at least the fenders) and line it up in the front wheelwells. You could also use the bumpstop on your frame lined up with the spindles for a stock location. Alot of people believe that a lowered straight axel truck looks better with the front wheels about an inch or so further forward though. Straight axel trucks have the front wheels placed about an inch back from where they are on a twin I truck. I am reconsidering this setup myself, by the time I have new springs made, convert to power steering, and upgrade to disc brakes I'd save a $100 bucks or more just "bolting" on the crn vic front end. This group is definately about the "labor of love" thing that is what old cars and trucks really should be about.

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 29, 2006, 7:50 am

ok greg thanks for all the info think ill start looking for one of those k members.you know ill be taking pics of it anyway so if you all want a tech write up ill be glad to help ill supply the pics and how i did it.btw greg how you liking the 05 stang?im dying for one of those cars!

bit · Post by **bit** » October 29, 2006, 8:33 am

http://groups.msn.com/SlicksN-C-Chapter ... hotoID=315 Here is a pic of the LTD uni. Looks to me like the crossmember swap will not be this low but I am not sure.

Bit

61ford · Post by **61ford** » October 29, 2006, 8:47 am

i dont want mine to sit quite that low maybe sit like 2 or 3 inches higher than that ltd set up i think id have clearance problems with my wheels and tires but thats still not a bad looking stance.since my body is off right now can i line up the spindles with the centerbolt in the springs on the k member swap?

bit · Post by **bit** » October 29, 2006, 8:54 am

Yeppers

Bit