'65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

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Blanger
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

snoracer wrote:ere's a link to another cool switch option. I've seen this on a few street rods
Tim,

That's way cool, and kinda' stealthy way to actuate the windows, but I don't think it would work in a slick because the power window motor occupies the area where the handle use to be, you could of course relocate that type of switch/handle to another location on the door, as big as the slicks doors are there isn't a lot of room in the vital areas, of course a different type of window regulator would free that space up I'd guess. The conversion I did is a popular conversion using '99 Saturn sedan power window motors, they fit the regulator by cutting a small V notch in the frame and drilling a couple holes to mount the motor, the shaft from the Saturn motors fits the bushing in the slicks regulator perfectly and the motors are small/compact enough to fit in the cavity beside the front window channel/wing window.

Here's a kit that uses a new totally different style of regulator putting the motor down at the bottom of the door where there is lots of room....

https://www.cjponyparts.com/power-windo ... /76180235/

The only thing you have to be careful about doing this is the slicks regulator uses a "clock spring" to help lift the window, when you remove the original shaft that the crank handle was attached to the lift arm can fly up releasing that tension, to get the window out of course the window has to be in the down position which has the spring wound tight, you could use the hand crank to run the lift arm back to the up position before removing the rivets that hold the shaft/gear but it still has energy left in the spring, if you had your fingers in the wrong place when it is released it could be bad....

I found this out the hard way on the first one I did on the uni, the guide I was following didn't mention the spring or the stored energy, when I ground the heads off the rivets (3 of them) nothing happen and I grabbed a hammer and punch to knock the rivets out, the first one goes out, the second one when it drove out the whole regulator jumped up off the work bench as the arm moved to the up position and the spring released it's tension. Luckily I had one hand on the hammer and the other holding the punch....it's a pretty big spring with a lot of energy, just be cautious.

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

Final assembly (part 11)

While I was converting the window regulators Saturday my wife was finishing up the inside and outside of the doors with paint, we let them cure over night and Sunday installed the doors back on the cab.

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A couple things to note, first being that some of you might remember that when we tore the truck apart I drilled reference holes (1/8") through the hinges and cab to locate the hinges this one simple step saved hours of trying to get the doors re-aligned, I just stuck a small phillips screwdriver in the reference hole and tightened up the bolts, the doors were right back in the alignment that they were in before we removed them and they opened and closed just as they had before....I highly recommended doing this one simple thing if your removing the doors. The other thing is with the doors stripped out they are easily manageable for one person to hold while another lines the holes and installed the bolts.

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With the doors installed we could start the slow painful process of replacing all the rubber around the wing windows (I'm getting to hate this task), install the new window channel, glass, window regulator, and anti-rattlers, we got the driver's door complete and ran out of time on Sunday to start the passenger side.

Monday we spent most of the day on the passenger side, had a few problems, but got it assembled, I have a issue with the power window motor on that side, it is either really weak or the window is in a bind, so we spent a lot of time on that side and finally gave up till next weekend (we were getting frustrated so it was time to walk away from it).

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Off and on throughout the weekend I worked on the instrument cluster, I got the black plastic bezel/spacer/trim (whatever you might call it) from the RM cluster cut down, it was angled to fit the RM dash and needed to be cut down to a uniform height of around a 1/4" so it will fit flat, so I got that cut down and the slicks metal bezel cut out, the Plexiglas cut, trimmed, and mounted to the back of the slicks bezel..... I'm in uncharted waters here all I have is finished pictures of what this is suppose to look like, no step by step guide, so I'm going really slow trying to think it through and not make a mistake.

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I have no idea at this point how it will all get sandwiched together, right now the RM cluster has to go in the dash first because it is bigger than the dash opening, I think at some point I'm going to have to take the RM cluster apart to see if it can be cut down so the whole thing can be put in the dash assembled.

I think if I disassemble the RM cluster (I have to remove the needles from the gauges) I can then see if I can cut the corners or a little off the height, looking at it from the side the circuit board is the same size but that doesn't mean there are circuit traces all the way out at the edge of the circuit board (likely not) it just means that GM built it to all be sandwiched together, if I could cut it down a little without disrupting the circuits then I can make it all slide into the slick dash as a unit which is what I'm hoping.

Here's a few pics.

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The plexi will get blacked out from the back side to crop the RM cluster, and the slicks metal bezel painted to match the dash, like I said I have no guide to doing this I'm just trying to figure out how Drew Bros did the truck I have pictures of, so it can be done, it's just figuring it all out without destroying the RM cluster in the process....lol

It also possible that Drew Bros assembled this in the dash with the column and brake pedal assembly out, I don't think so but who knows, if I can cut the cluster down to the point it will fit in the slicks dash as a assembly without having to tilt it very much up or down to clear the opening I'd be home free, but it's also possible that they assembled the cluster and bezel while putting it in the dash opening, not real sure if that is a possibility either... I'll keep pluggin' away at it in my spare time till I get it to work or totally ass it up...lol

You really only get one chance cutting the slicks bezel, I mean you can always take more out/off but once it's cut there is no going back, and I only have one for each truck, no spares so..... and the cluster is the same way although I do have a extra cluster for the '09 CV for the step side build that we replaced at work because the shift indicator had broken on the customer and it was easier/cheaper to just get a cluster from salvage than to buy the shift indicator parts from Ford.

The other thing is that if this works I of course will do the same thing to the '62 uni and the '62 step side trucks, and the added bonus is that the Crown Vic instrument cluster is smaller height-wise so it will be a lot less work making it fit the dash opening, I probably should have done the uni first since it in theory will be easier but that's not how it's going to happen.

Something like this is what I'm trying to accomplish.....it doesn't have to look as nice, just be functional and not look cobbled together.

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Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

Final assembly : Observations, thoughts, and plans looking forward. (weekend reading edition!) lol

We are almost at the point where the '65 will be drive-able, I suspect this weekend it will make its first trip around the block, but we are getting to the point that nothing is stopping us from driving it around and that aspect of the build is again a turning point as the list of "to do" things gets shorter and shorter.

The build cost is lower than our estimate, even buying new wheels and tires we have just crested the $4500 mark with the most recent parts order of odds and end parts like knobs, carpet, steel for the bed floor, etc. It for all practical purposes looks like we will end up around the same cost as the '62 uni was/is which is in the $5k range (about $5200-$5400 today), if you think about that it's pretty cheap to build a vehicle for less than $10k in this day and age, but let's not forget all the free labor that would drive that cost well over $10k if you were paying someone to build it for you....with that in mind.

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What if?

I like to run scenarios around through my head and one of the more popular ones is what would I charge someone to build a vehicle like these two truck if someone asked, and it's a difficult question to answer. One of the reasons it's difficult to come up with a answer is that there are a lot of variables based on things like the shape of the truck, the age and type of donor, and what the end result the person might want.

I was asked the other day about how much time I had in the uni and right off the top of my head I told them around 400 hours, don't know why I said that but it's more hours depending on your math skills, it took about 6 months to build, putting in 3-8hr days per week and if you average the months to 4 weeks per months my weak math skills comes up with about 576 hours, I know out of the 8 hr days it isn't but probably 6 hrs work but if you rounded it up to 600 hours I think you'd be close to what it would take to actually build one of these trucks in our shop in the style we build them. This is probably still a low hours figure because my wife is by my side helping and doing everything she can to push the build further down the road, if you take that into consideration the total hours should be x2 or at least x1.5 of that 600 hr figure.

So if you remove the donor vehicles from the equation (truck and car) and worked with the premise that the customer would supply all the parts you needed, and got down to just your labor, what hourly rate would be fair? I have to consider several things in answering that hourly rate question....

1. What is my time worth?

2. Who is the customer?

3. How much input is the customer going to have in the process?

4. Does the customer want a "turnkey" build?

5. Does the customer want to help?

6. What is the customer's "end goal" for the build?

7. Does the customer have the financial resources to pay upfront? (because I wouldn't even consider doing a build for someone unless they paid most of the money up front)

8. Is the customer the only person to deal with on the build or are there other persons involved? (wife, father, mother, etc)

9. Does the customer have a plan, do they have a expressible vision (as in they want this or that, not that hey, I like that) for the build? (it's a important thing to me, that they know what they want), do they have unreasonable expectations? like thinking there should be some type of warranty.

10. Can I actually stand to be around the customer (one of the most important aspects), what is their attitude like, are they arrogant? are they ignorant?, are they pushy? are they squishy? are they going to be a pain in the ass?

11. Do they want to hang out and watch? be in the way of progress, take up your time asking too many questions, or just being overly involved so they can tell their friends they are doing the build in our shop.

12. Go back to #1 and rethink that based on the answers to the other questions.

There are a lot more question I'd need answered to figure out what a fair hourly labor rate would be, I know that $10 a hour would be the minimum, but you're talking about my free time away from my day job so that should come as a premium, then factor in the answers to the other questions it could be as high as $30 a hour.

So just figuring the minimum it would add $6k in labor making the end cost in the $12k range and could go much higher, a round figure of $15k invested for the completed build would be a safe bet if the customer wanted AC, and if the customer wanted a slick paint job we could easily take that $15k and turn it into $25k for a professional body and paint job..... when you get to that level you have to have pretty deep pockets when it comes to disposable income and a heated desire to see the project through to the end.

Like I said I like to run scenarios because people will inevitably ask the question of "how much" and that is either how much do you have invested, or how much would you charge, and like the how much time question that I got wrong right off the top of my head it's better since the question is going to come up to have the correct answer....just in case. lol

And answering all of the above questions also gives me a very good idea on the value of a truck like the '62 uni because that is another question that has and will again come up "how much would you sell it for?" the first time I was asked that question again off the top of my head I said $12k which I feel is pretty well on the mark, but you know it may have a lot more value to the right person than I give the truck credit for..... I base some of that on the average guy or gal who has the desire but no skills, tools, place or time to do any type of build.

For the people who "get it" that have the desire, have the money, but nothing else and started a project like this taking it from shop to shop to have each aspect of the build done would easily drop $25k but more likely $35k and several years getting their dream built, which to me makes a "turnkey" truck that you can jump in and go anywhere in and not have to worry about scratching the paint might be worth more than the $12k? I just don't know, but $15k isn't out of the question to me.

I have no intention of selling the uni but in my mind it's always a good idea to have a price in the back of your head because you never know who is going to show up on your door step with cash in hand, and it helps with other builds too, it helps to figure the cost, or to set a price at different stages of the build because it's always a good idea to have a cost worked out (if you can) before starting a project, that way you can budget the money spent in a wise manner.

Of course every build is different and so is the cost associated with the build making it a moving target but we have noticed with the '65 build that the more you repurpose the cheaper the build gets which is not to say you can't spend as much as you want because you can do just that, and of course the more you "farm out" to other people or shops the cost is going to increase rapidly.

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Back to the '65

We are at the point on the '65 that it can be ran in and out of the shop so this weekend I'm going to try to get the '62 flare side (step side) cab and bed in the shop on dollys and shoved back in the corner so they can dry out, the cab can be evaluated and a preliminary plan started....one thing for sure is there isn't going to be a lot of bed area left after it is cut out for the CV suspension, the flare side beds are of course narrow by design so it will be interesting to see what we do for a bed floor.

When I went out a few weeks ago to steal the defroster vents out of the '62 cab I had the time to look at the dash which like the rest is really rough, it has holes drilled everywhere, the radio opening has been cut out for a double DIN radio, it's just butchered all to hell. I forgot to mention that at some point in its life it had a 500cid Cadillac motor in it and the guy we got the sheet metal from had sold the frame/motor/driveline to someone else because he was going to put the '62 sheet metal on a more modern 4x4 truck.

There is a lot of parts missing from the interior like the rear view mirror, sun visors, all the rubber parts are shot, it's had numerous holes cut in the floor and drilled everywhere along with all of the usual rot that '62 trucks have, I thought the uni was bad when I started that project but the flare side cab is a whole lot worse in a lot of ways.....but I can save it, I think! lol

(Note: I'm trying to get my mind right, I know Ford calls their beds "Flare Side" and I guess my GM roots kinda' show through when I call it a "Step Side" which is what GM called theirs, sorry)

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I came across another F100 chassis swap build channel on YouTube this week that some of you might want to take a look at....it's a in progress build with about a dozen videos up so far.



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Have a great weekend!

Jon
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04sd
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by 04sd »

Jon,

This truck isn't much different than what you are doing, old truck body on a modern chassis.
http://madgoatcustoms.com/?page_id=26
This truck sold for more than you 15K figure.

I think the key is, don't build the truck for a customer to what they want. Build a truck the way you want, no issues dealing with a customer, and then sell it when your done, maybe after driving it for a year and enjoying it.
Bill
1966 F100 Camper Special, now a short bed 4x4.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1644 ... build.html
SteveCanup
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by SteveCanup »

I enjoyed reading your 'pontifications' about building a custom truck...

Have you hung the doors yet? Any pics?
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Blanger
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

04sd wrote:This truck isn't much different than what you are doing, old truck body on a modern chassis.
Bill,

Thanks for the link, that's a cool old '51 and on a Explorer chassis...pretty neat.

Like I said in the post I have no intention of selling eith of the trucks we have built but you know people always ask questions and the time, money, and emount of effort are always at the top of their list of questions.... I doubt I'd every build one for someone else other than family, there is just too many issues in doing that but I like to run the idea around in my head from time to time just for the sake of having the correct answers.

Jon
Last edited by Blanger on February 17, 2018, 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blanger
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

SteveCanup wrote:I enjoyed reading your 'pontifications' about building a custom truck...
Thanks Steve, sometimes I just like to run my mounth or think outloud, I'm glad you enjoy reading them...really.
SteveCanup wrote:Have you hung the doors yet? Any pics?
Yeah, last weekend, we got sidetracked on the passenger door and I didn't take any pictures but will have some that I'll post next week.

Here's the only one I took....

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I'll have a full report next week along with a bunch of pictures.

Take care,

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by SteveCanup »

Blanger wrote:Yeah, last weekend, we got sidetracked on the passenger door and I didn't take any pictures but will have some that I'll post next week.
Tantalizing...I can't wait...
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

Final assembly (part 12)

Two steps forward....and one step back!

First item of business on Saturday was to move the '65 outside (in the rain) so we could bring in the '62 uni to pull it's seat out and after recovering the seats out of the Roadmaster install them in the '62.

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While the '65 was outside the rain turned into snow....

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So with the seats recovered we brought in the '62 uni and pulled its seat out, we put the RM seats in, while moving them around to figure out the mounts I walked around the back of the truck and was looking in the back window, I really didn't like how the seats looked. While they look fine inside the truck the view from the rear looked like two Lazy-Boy lounge chairs sticking up in the back window, the back of the seats is so tall and wide that to me it looked really stupid which I didn't like at all.

I didn't take a picture but we did take them right back out and put the bench seat that was in the '65 in it for the time being, my wife wasn't real happy with how the seat covers turned out, they fit and look ok but are not as "fitted" as they were supposed to be, I was less concern with that but really didn't like how they looked, but they are comfy and do fit inside the truck, are mountable with a minimal amount of effort....but.

I'm going to look at the original bucket seats that came out of the first Crown Vic that I took to work and probably bring them back home and see how they look in the truck, the problem is mostly how high the back of the seats are, if they won't work we'll just recover the bench seat from the '65 and reinstall it in the '62 uni.

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With that turning out to be a failure (waste of time) we ran the uni out and brought the '65 back in the shop, while it was drying off I started working on putting the sound deadener on the floor and firewall, that pretty well finished out Saturday.

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Tomorrow I'll cover what we did Sunday.....

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by SteveCanup »

I've never been a fan of luxury car seats in a pick-up truck, and I agree with you about the 'recliner' look. With that being said, I bought a set of leather bucket seats that I think came out of an '07 Malibu (not sure.) I also did not like the headrests sticking up in the rear window. I removed them and bent up some 3/8 bars and made "nerf" bars to go into the headrest holes. Eventually, if I recover the seats I will remove them....maybe.

Here's pics of what I did...
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And a view from the outside...
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Hopefully this will give you some ideas. Btw, your wife's truck looks fantastic! My wife keeps looking over my shoulder...she wants a unicab now, lol...
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Blanger
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

SteveCanup wrote:I've never been a fan of luxury car seats in a pick-up truck, and I agree with you about the 'recliner' look.
Steve,

If I could have removed the headrest it might have made a difference but the top of the seat is molded around the headrest and it wouldn't have made a difference, like I said if the old CV seats won't work then we'll just recover the bench seat from the '65 with less padding.
SteveCanup wrote: Btw, your wife's truck looks fantastic! My wife keeps looking over my shoulder...she wants a unicab now, lol...
Thank you..... she won't even let me run it in and out of the shop...lol I'll get behind the wheel soon enough... :D

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

Final assembly (part 13)

Sunday I pulled the power window motor/regulator out of the passenger door to see what was up with it having problems lifting the window, with the regulator disconnected the window goes up and down in its channel pretty easily, no binding. Looking at the regulator the bushing for the motor shaft was missing (not sure how I over looked that) so I went back and looked at the window crank gears that had been removed to install the power window motors and sure enough the bushing was stuck on the end of the shaft.

It was easy enough to get the bushing off the old shaft, remove the power window motor and drive the bushing back in the frame, what was happening was the end of the motor shaft wasn't supported and was letting the shaft bind when it was trying to lift the window, after installing the bushing, motor, and putting it back in the door it worked as it was suppose to....lol

"Murphy" seemed to have been visiting us this weekend, just about everything I did it seemed I had to do twice, and I guess it was just our turn for him to visit...lol

With the window fixed I figured it was time to install the door gaskets, so that was the next project..

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After a couple hours of gluing and clamping, moving around the perimeter of the door I get the driver's side installed, go to close the door and it won't shut, not even close to latching....WTF Murphy!

I have to adjust the striker plate out to get the door to latch, but it's going to need more adjustment after the weather-stripping glue sets up, so what else can I do that is going to be a PIA?

I decide to install the power window switch in the driver's door, that turns out nice, it's tight in the opening, it's in a good location, and can be removed to wire....hey a success. lol

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So I decide to install the arm rests (Murphy seems to have moved on to greener pastures) and that again was a success, these arm rests are for a '60s Mustang they adapt, fit, and install in the slick very well, and are around $20 each from Summit.

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I went around and did the passenger door and installed the speaker in that door, drilled the holes and ran the wiring for the speaker and power window motor into the cab.

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With that taken care of we stuck the seat in it so we can drive the truck, we should have the carpet this week....

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Lets back track.....Saturday I did get our friend Ryan to come down with his loader and bring in the cab and bed for the '62 flare side truck and set them on the dollys, I'll post those pictures in the '62 flare side (step side) thread which will slowly start to get some attention as we finish up the '65 build.

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by SteveCanup »

I like the armrests...I may order a pair. I did get a chuckle about "Murphy"....I say the same all the time.
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

SteveCanup wrote:I like the armrests...I may order a pair. I did get a chuckle about "Murphy"....I say the same all the time.
Steve, here's a link to the armrests...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk- ... /overview/

They are of course molded over a piece of steel, they do not come with any mounting hardware, instead of using screws to mount them, I mark the holes and drill through the door then use a bolt, nut and a couple washers to keep them in place, pretty hard to beat the price.

"Murphy" and I don't get along very well, and if I think he is going to hang out for very long I just turn out the lights, go in the house and wait till he gets bored and moves on.... lol

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Carpet arrived yesterday, we'll get it un-boxed and stretched out tonight so it can relax - air out, then we'll get it installed this weekend.

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by SteveCanup »

Thanks for the link...I will order a set for my truck. Btw, your pics from 2 posts earlier (this mornings) have disappeared...
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

SteveCanup wrote:Thanks for the link...I will order a set for my truck. Btw, your pics from 2 posts earlier (this mornings) have disappeared...
No problem, looks like the hosting site is having issues the pictures should return as soon as they sort out their problems, they are a pretty big operation so they may be down for maintenance or a upgrade...hard to say, but should be back up soon.

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

Final Assembly (part 14)

We got carpet..... after letting it relax a few days out of the shipping box it was time to install the carpet, I have to say it was almost a perfect fit, very little trimming, but we did have to make the holes for the seat bolts to pass through the carpet but that was expected.

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We then installed the seat and bolted it down.

To finish out the door openings (thresholds) we used the rubber roofing aluminum termination strips that we used for the bed in the uni, cutting them to length and a couple notches in the right location let them bend to fit the couture.

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We spent the rest of Saturday and most of Sunday cutting, welding the framework for the raised bed floor, unlike the uni we are making this one two levels with it being lower at the cab then raised to clear the Roadmaster suspension and running at that height to the tailgate.

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This will again get 3/4 plywood that we will seal and treat so it resists water....

More tomorrow.

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by snoracer »

Jon - I like what you've done with the bed floor. You can have two nice hidden compartments on either side of the fuel tank, behind the wheel wells. Good place to put your ammo, tools, etc. Nice job !!
Tim,
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by Blanger »

snoracer wrote:Jon - I like what you've done with the bed floor. You can have two nice hidden compartments on either side of the fuel tank, behind the wheel wells. Good place to put your ammo, tools, etc. Nice job !!
Thanks Tim, when we did the uni I left the tail gate end open and have two plastic tubs that fit under the floor to store tie downs and misc crap that I didn't want in the cab, I suggested doing exactly what you mentioned about storage in the side but the wife didn't want to add that feature....so.

The one thing you will be interested in is the RM instrument cluster....

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It took a lot of hacking on the RM cluster to get it to fit which I cover tomorrow, but the bottom line is that reusing the RM cluster and the slicks bezel/trim is doable.

Jon
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Re: '65 F100 SWB - yes another Crown Vic swap

Post by snoracer »

It took a lot of hacking on the RM cluster to get it to fit which I cover tomorrow, but the bottom line is that reusing the RM cluster and the slicks bezel/trim is doable.

Jon - That's exactly what I plan to do also. Much like what they did at Drew brothers. Unfortunately, when I spoke with them, I didn't ask nearly enough questions on what they had to do to get things to fit. I felt lucky that he was nice enough to share the info and photos that he did share with me. Especially since I called during their business hours. I'm anxious to see what you had to do to get the cluster to fit.
Tim,
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