Slick 60's

Hey gang.. my 65 has been in storage in a friends workshop for appx 10 months. Went to collect her today and have an odd issue; maybe someone can offer some insight before I start pulling things apart unnecessarily?

Long story short when she was started she ran like a hairy goat (putting it mildly). Engine started but idled VERY rough but with no obvious noises outside the usual.

After a process of elimination, first with plugs, leads etc, we discovered ZERO compression on #3 and #4 cylinders. We removed the rocker cover, started the engine again and noted very little oil arriving at the rockers. Weirdest thing was NO MOVEMENT at all on either inlet or exhaust valve/rockers.

We removed the other rocker cover and found the same thing on #7 and #8 cylinders. Needless to say we shut her down rather than risk any damage.

The oil light was OFF as the engine ran and we didn't have an oil pressure gauge to do a test but something tells me it's an oil pressure problem, and possibly the oil pump...

Anyone with a bit more experience ever come across this before?

I have not run into this, but it sounds like you might have either some collapsed lifters or your cam could have some lobes wiped. I'd pull one of the lifters that is not moving to see if it is collapsed. Easy to do from the top with a lifter removal tool. If it is not collapsed, then you have a cam issue. If you have oil at the lifters of the working cylinders, then it is less likely you have an oil issue.

Sounds like cam is broke in half, rear part not turning. Just a guess.


Johnny

bruceandersson wrote:I have not run into this, but it sounds like you might have either some collapsed lifters or your cam could have some lobes wiped. I'd pull one of the lifters that is not moving to see if it is collapsed. Easy to do from the top with a lifter removal tool. If it is not collapsed, then you have a cam issue. If you have oil at the lifters of the working cylinders, then it is less likely you have an oil issue.

What would be the likelihood of 8 lifters collapsing at the same time? Def worth checking though. I found a vid on Youtube that talks about diagnosing hydraulic lifters.

longcabjohn wrote:Sounds like cam is broke in half, rear part not turning. Just a guess.
Johnny

That's what it looks like but would've though she would be making a LOT more noise if that was the case.


Thanks for the feedback guys; looks like I'll be pulling the engine down sooner than expected... and in typical fashion; right when I have zero $$$ available...

Cam breaking is unusual but has been known to happen. Very rare. Easy enough to check , remove intake and rotate engine and watch cam or remobve pan and do it, might be easier.

Rich

64 f100 wrote:Cam breaking is unusual but has been known to happen. Very rare. Easy enough to check , remove intake and rotate engine and watch cam or remobve pan and do it, might be easier.

Rich

Thx Rich, found a cam+lifter kit available here for about $400 NZD... (urgh!!) Think I'll do some more inspection and decide which way to go...

Not knowing what the exchange rate is between the US and Kiwi-land but you can get cam and lifters on Ebay for around $185 US with free shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/191113303423?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT I'm sure you would pay some shipping. Just an FYI.

Looks like it would be around $274 NZD give or take. Hope you find it isn't needed.

orangeRcode wrote:Not knowing what the exchange rate is between the US and Kiwi-land but you can get cam and lifters on Ebay for around $185 US with free shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/191113303423?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT I'm sure you would pay some shipping. Just an FYI.

Thanks for the FYI... Def will do some eBay searching once I'm sure of the diagnosis.

Did a bit more research today and still think it's got something to do with oil pressure.. could be completely wrong but won't hurt to make sure before I start pulling the engine down. Talking to an old hot rod guy locally, I'm going to pull the distributor and see if I've spun the oil pump drive shaft.. not uncommon apparently.. cost nothing to check...

In either case, will require and engine take down. Bound to be metal in the oil if ran very long.

Rich

Ok, update. Went over to where the truck is currently stored and pulled the distributor. The oil pump drive shaft was in place in the bottom of the distributor mounting hole.

I manually turned the shaft with an extension drive and it appears to be working, got oil arriving at the oil filter and some resistance on the drive.

The only oddity I noticed as that I think the shaft is only "just" engaging to the distributor. The top of the rod was well below the bottom of the distributor hole and I estimate it's only engaging by about 3-4mm at best.

Plan now is to get the ol girl back home on a trailer which will make it easier to tinker about. I next plan on removing the inlet manifold and inspecting the lifters and the oil galleries...

Another update, and not so good news for me unfortunately. Looks like the camshaft has broken in two...

No idea of the cause at this stage but having already pulled the intake manifold off, looks like I gotta pull the whole motor. Hey; on the plus side it'll be a heap lighter now!!!

I had never heard of a cam breaking before, but it sure fit your symptoms. You might have an interesting time getting the old cam out. i'd try driving the back portion out the back of the engine via the freeze type plug at the end of the cam. It might be stuck to the bearings, thus the breakage. If you had no oil to at least one rear cam bearing the heat buildup caused a sudden lock and broke the cam. The lack of oil would most likely be due to the cam bearing oil hole not lining up to the block passage. I've had that happen but caught it before running the engine much.

bruceandersson wrote:I had never heard of a cam breaking before, but it sure fit your symptoms. You might have an interesting time getting the old cam out. i'd try driving the back portion out the back of the engine via the freeze type plug at the end of the cam. It might be stuck to the bearings, thus the breakage. If you had no oil to at least one rear cam bearing the heat buildup caused a sudden lock and broke the cam. The lack of oil would most likely be due to the cam bearing oil hole not lining up to the block passage. I've had that happen but caught it before running the engine much.

Well, I wouldn't have believed it either had I not seen it with my own two eyes. I agree with you re the bearing... as you say it sat for too long, not enough oil pressure on startup, front wants to keep turning and it's sheared the cam.

My plan is to pull the engine, drop the sump off and have a closer look. May as well do the whole bottom end, do it once, do it right. Unfortunately I'm right at the pointy end of building a house.. you know, the part where you're not sure if the money is going to run out before the project ends. Can't see the rebuild happening for a while yet. Think I'll start collecting the parts I need as money allows and then re-build once I have all the bits. New oil pump is on the shopping list, as is a new cam+lifters, etc etc etc $$$$$$$$$$$$

Bad luck mate, super annoying particularly right as the house is so close.
At least this way you'll have a 'known quantity' after its finished, although that doesn't help pay the damn engine bill!

Leeroy wrote:Bad luck mate, super annoying particularly right as the house is so close.
At least this way you'll have a 'known quantity' after its finished, although that doesn't help pay the damn engine bill!

Cheers mate... yep, bit of a bugger timing-wise but it'll be better for it in the end.

UPDATE.

Well after more than a year sitting, I have finally managed to find time to pull the engine and tear it down.
Can confirm that the camshaft has definitely sheared off just past the 3rd bearing journal.

IMG_1662 by Ewen Cafe, on Flickr

Now to pull the pistons so I can get to the second piece of the puzzle...

Buggar !