63 Crew Cab Project: Restoration/Build

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 3, 2010, 10:36 pm

I’m looking for some opinions and advice from you guys and gals.

Background: I am the proud owner of a 63 F100 Crew Cab, built by Armbruster Stageway (Coach Builders) in Fort Smith AR (which is still in business today.

I’ve had the truck for about 18 months. The information I got from the PO, who got it from another PO was that it was built for and used in the oil patches of Northwest Arkansas. It is a long sucker, measuring in about 19 feet. From all I can find out, the truck is unusual even for a 60’s era crew cab in that it’s an F100 (Most apparently were F250s) and the truck has a LONG (wrong) bed, which is correct for the truck. (Apparently most known conversions had to short bed, to keep from having to extend the frame.

Now that I have my new shop completed and inside room to work, I have begun the process of taking the truck apart for refurbishing and rebuilding.

We should have the body off next week so I can begin cutting some of the rust out. For those who don’t know, they use (or at least they did) use a lot of saltwater in the drilling process, therefore there is a lot of rust to remove and panels to replace.

Originally a Y-Block with 3 on the tree, the truck currently has no engine or transmission. When the PO bought the truck it had some kind of a Pontiac OHC engine in it. Therefore I am starting with basically a blank slate.

I am basically a traditionalist and would normally be only considering a Y-Block for the truck, but I would like it to be a cruiser with the ability to tow at least one of my other slicks to Slick Stock V. It will cost me in the neighborhood of $2,000 to have a Y-Block built.

My thoughts at this point are running toward the following:
03-07 Crown Victoria front cross member, disc brakes, power R&P, etc.
Lincoln Mark VIII 32V OHC engine and AOD transmission (280 HP vs 200 HP for the 4.6 PI engine) and aluminum block vs cast iron (as I understand it).
And possibly the Mark VIII IRS, or use the Crown Victoria, Mustang, or Explorer 8” differential, possibly with the leaf springs.

The Mark VIII power plants are relatively cheap ($700-1,000) for an engine in the 50, 000-70,000 mile range with all accessories and transmissions about $400. I have located one with front end sheet metal damage in Austin for only $900. Only problem is that it is a little high on miles (120,000) although it supposedly was owned by a lady my age, whose son wrecked it. That would give me all accessories PS pump, A/C compressor etc, etc. plus the wiring harness and computer, plus the tranny, and IRS.

A major expense will be one of the Ron Francis wiring harness kits at about $900, but that appears to be so simple that even I can figure it out

. Much easier (at least for me) than trying to figure out how to use the factory wiring harness.

A couple of members are currently working on a similar setup and I’m following their progress.

I could possibly consider the Jaguar front and rear suspension, but can’t believe those would be too plentiful around North Louisiana. I’ve seen several on e-bay in the $500 range for a complete front suspension or the IRS.

I would appreciate your thoughts, comments and free advice on this potential swap.

36truck · Post by **36truck** » November 3, 2010, 11:03 pm

My thoughts at this point are running toward the following:
03-07 Crown Victoria front cross member, disc brakes, power R&P, etc.
Lincoln Mark VIII 32V OHC engine and AOD transmission (280 HP vs 200 HP for the 4.6 PI engine) and aluminum block vs cast iron (as I understand it).
And possibly the Mark VIII IRS, or use the Crown Victoria, Mustang, or Explorer 8” differential, possibly with the leaf springs.

The Mark VIII power plants are relatively cheap ($700-1,000) for an engine in the 50, 000-70,000 mile range with all accessories and transmissions about $400. I have located one with front end sheet metal damage in Austin for only $900. Only problem is that it is a little high on miles (120,000) although it supposedly was owned by a lady my age, whose son wrecked it. That would give me all accessories PS pump, A/C compressor etc, etc. plus the wiring harness and computer, plus the tranny, and IRS.

That's what I would do. No Jag stuff for me.

fire truck · Post by **fire truck** » November 4, 2010, 8:14 pm

You lost me man. you'll sink more into a mod engine to put it in your truck than the y would cost and the y is a better engine any day of the week.
If it were me, I'd run a y, Windsor, 7.3, or ls

If you're set on running mod, shop around, thy go for 150 here. Heck, I sold a blown 5.4 from a harley truck with 86k on it for 650, and barley got that.....

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 4, 2010, 8:56 pm

fire truck wrote:You lost me man. you'll sink more into a mod engine to put it in your truck than the y would cost and the y is a better engine any day of the week. If it were me, I'd run a y, Windsor, 7.3, or ls
If you're set on running mod, shop around, thy go for 150 here. Heck, I sold a blown 5.4 from a harley truck with 86k on it for 650, and barley got that.....

Don't sugarcoat it T.J. tell me how you really feel

.
I'm not married to anything yet, just looking at possibilities. It appears that people either love or hate the mods. For me to even consider something other than the Y-Block is quite a step away from my traditionalist self. But, like I said, it's a blank slate.
My stated objective is to have a nice highway cruiser with the capacity to tow one of my slicks with. A few of the guys on here are doing the Mark VIII swap into slicks and there are tons of Mustang folks are replacing their engines with the Mark VIII. It looks like pretty much a bolt-in when you use the CV cross member.

kstones63 · Post by **kstones63** » November 4, 2010, 9:51 pm

They are right about the mod motors costing more to rebuild. I saw on ebay the other day that the cam chains and gears cost about $450-$500. I haven't even checked into what the heads are going to cost to be rebuilt. I plan on hopefully only having to put rings, bearings, chains, gaskets and heads rebuilt. Mine has 143,000 on it.
I don't remember if I told you that Factory Five supposedly makes a universal mounting kit for the MArk VIII IRS. It narrows it up so that you can run oversized tires on it.
I am definetely putting this engine in my truck. I think that it will be worth the extra effort and money. All of the people that I talked to about these Mark VIII's claim that they will do about 24-26 MPG on the highway. Even if they are lying and it only does 20-22 MPG, I would be happy.

Kevin

Rusty 63 · Post by **Rusty 63** » November 5, 2010, 3:44 am

Glad you're finally getting started on the crew!

I look at it this way - the better the power & MPG the more often you're going to use it & less likely to "take the new car"...

I love the choice for suspension (call me biased - LOL), and the engine choice sounds good to me. I agree with the guys that you ought to be able to find a less expensive, lower mileage engine to start.

Being the "green" guy that I am - I spent a lot of time thinking about a "small" diesel engine to boost the truck up into the 30 mpg range... 3.9l Isuzu or Cummins diesels, while not cheap to build, can give you a lifetime of trouble free high mpg fun. Not to mention you can run veggie oil or biodiesel & enjoy the smell of french fries as you drive!

Enjoy & post some pics of the old girl doing the strip!

jeepbut · Post by **jeepbut** » November 5, 2010, 8:19 pm

460 and c-6 if it were mine. Thanks, Lyman.

Truckrat · Post by **Truckrat** » November 6, 2010, 9:57 am

Gerald, it sounds like you are fixing to get down and dirty on that crew. As for a drivetrain, your choices are very wide depending on what you said you want to do. As far as towing a trailer with another Slick on it, I am thinking you will be needing something with a lot of torque. I admit I don't know much about the torque numbers on the mod engines. Since the displacements aren't all that big, I am thinking you won't have a stroke of more than 3.5, does that sound right? As far as pulling power, I am leaning toward Lyman's post about a 460 / C6.
I am using that combo in my 65 as I plan to pull trailers, Car haulers, RVs, and even boats with it. I wanted something with a lot of torque at a low rpm. Yeah I know my mpg won't be worth writing about, but It is what I need. For a cruiser I think your choices are very good. Would like to see that setup all together. Bet it would handle great with independents under it front and rear. How much did the Mark VIII weigh? Would it be anywhere close to the weight of the truck? Kinda thinking the crew would be heavier by a good amount, but maybe not????????
Well, that's my two cents worth.
BTW, did you want to swap the 63 bed for a 64-66 bed so all the body lines are the same? TR

rickairmedic · Post by **rickairmedic** » November 6, 2010, 10:05 am

One other option with the 460/C6 would be a gear vendors setup . You would have the torque when you need it and the extra gears for decent highway milage .

Rick

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 6, 2010, 9:43 pm

Truckrat wrote:Gerald, it sounds like you are fixing to get down and dirty on that crew. For a cruiser I think your choices are very good. Would like to see that setup all together. Bet it would handle great with independents under it front and rear. How much did the Mark VIII weigh? Would it be anywhere close to the weight of the truck? Kinda thinking the crew would be heavier by a good amount, but maybe not????????
Well, that's my two cents worth. BTW, did you want to swap the 63 bed for a 64-66 bed so all the body lines are the same? TR

Thanks Gary: Think the Mark VIII weighs in about 3,700 lbs. Probably close to a slick. Not sure how much more the crew weighs, only 1/2 a cab extra, but not sure how much more the frame would weigh? I'll have to post some pictures of the frame. Almost looks like they use railroad track to extend the frame

.
Regarding the bed, no I plan to use a 61-63 long flare instead of the "wrong" long. I think I have located a 65 4X4 with a good long flare bed (4X4's have the same length as the 61-63 longs.) Although it would look good and the lines would match, using the 64-66 bed would be a last resort type thing as it would require cutting the front of the bed down or moving the rear axle rearward 6" and it wouldn't be a "correct" bed for the year.That's just me.

pj's64F250&66F600 · Post by **pj's64F250&66F600** » November 8, 2010, 4:49 pm

kstones63 wrote:They are right about the mod motors costing more to rebuild. I saw on ebay the other day that the cam chains and gears cost about $450-$500. I haven't even checked into what the heads are going to cost to be rebuilt. I plan on hopefully only having to put rings, bearings, chains, gaskets and heads rebuilt. Mine has 143,000 on it.
I don't remember if I told you that Factory Five supposedly makes a universal mounting kit for the MArk VIII IRS. It narrows it up so that you can run oversized tires on it.
I am definetely putting this engine in my truck. I think that it will be worth the extra effort and money. All of the people that I talked to about these Mark VIII's claim that they will do about 24-26 MPG on the highway. Even if they are lying and it only does 20-22 MPG, I would be happy.

Kevin

Hmmmm. 20-22, eh? Well, perhaps downhill. The weight and body style simply are not conducive to those kinds of numbers. If you had expectations of 16-19, that might be more reasonable and if you got anything better, you'll have experienced a pleasant surprise. Depending on how many miles you rack up, there may be no practical difference between big numbers (mpg's) and littler numbers. I don't think most of us got into these Slicks with the thought of saving any money. My $0.02

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 8, 2010, 5:33 pm

Gas mileage is not really my priority. 16-19 would be fine. That's about what I get on my '04 5.4 Tritron and I don't really do that much highway driving -- usually just to Pate and Slick Stock (plus the occasional run to Texas or Arkansas to pick up another slick).
I understand the 460's, although good for torque, are real gas hogs?? For some reason the FE engines are not at all attractive to me. If I don't go modular then I will probably stick with the Y-Block. Maybe the 5.4 would be a good choice for less HP and more torque, but they're probably pretty pricey. Or, maybe I could talk Brien (Bluebolt) out of his extra Lightning engine

. Yeah right!

fire truck · Post by **fire truck** » November 8, 2010, 8:38 pm

If you decide on a 5.4, let me know, I know where 4or5 of them are for less than $200. Those lightning engines are cheap too, mine had 86k on it and after like six months I dropped the price to 650 and still had it another month...

A Y would be soo sweet! I think a cut down 8ft style side bed would look best with the body lines particular to your crew....

If not the Y, why not run a 351w/AOD?

Post by **Greg D** » November 8, 2010, 9:15 pm

I don't remember the exact year but mid 90s 351 Ws are roller cam compatible.

fire truck · Post by **fire truck** » June 20, 2011, 10:12 am

How about a V10 for your crew?

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » June 20, 2011, 10:27 am

Where and how much? How many miles? Can you run a "modern" AOD behind it? Will it fit? Seems like it would be a long sucker.

fire truck · Post by **fire truck** » June 20, 2011, 10:41 am

It's mine, picked up a 01 sd this weekend v10 4r100 2wd

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » June 20, 2011, 10:47 am

Hmmmm!
Would give me the torque. How many miles on the engine/tranny?

Hookedtrout · Post by **Hookedtrout** » June 20, 2011, 12:01 pm

Gritsngumbo wrote:Hmmmm!
Would give me the torque. Miles?

MPG on my 01 V10 is 12ish pulling, not pulling, whatever. I have not invested anything in trying to improve that, I'm sure there are better breathing systems etc that may bring that up. Love the power however, it makes for some awesome snow plowing and excellent Toy Hauling.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » June 20, 2011, 12:19 pm

Thanks Cory, I was really asking how many miles on T.J.'s engine, but that's good info to know. Not too worried about fuel mileage, but would love the power and torque. I get about 16 hwy in my 04 5.4 and about 8-10 towing a hauler with a slick on it.