351 Windsor or Cleveland!!!

[3ontree66]

A friend of mine bought a 73 Mustang last year and was under the impression it was a 351 c. Now he's not so sure. Is there a way to tell aka block number, bigger valve covers, anything that's distinctive to a Clevo? Also, where exactly is the block number? Did Clevelands come with a 2 bbl from factory?

Here's his vin. if anyone can read it: 3FO1H256387. Thanks.

[jamesdfo]

James: It's not hard to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor:) (and yes there were 2bbl & 4bbl 351C's, but only 2bbl from factory on 351M's)

First off the heads are MUCH bigger on the Cleveland.
351C


351C Valve Covers


Timing chain on Cleveland is recessed into the block casting, with just a flat plate bolting to the block, upon which the water pump is mounted....
Clevelands have the thermostat housing on top of block (in pic below, thermostat hole on LH, dist hole on rh)


==========================================================================
351W


Windsor timing cover is aluminum, and bolts to front of block (and then water pump bolts to timing cover).


Windsor intakes have the thermostat housing ON the intake, vertical (see 1st pic above)

351W Valve Covers

[3ontree66]

Thanks James, that clears it up! Hopefully see you at one of the shows this year??

[64 f100]

NO it doesn't, don't keep us in suspence which one was it? You get us to wondering and curious, then just leave us hanging.

Rich

[3ontree66]

Sorry Rich, it's a Cleveland.

[Gritsngumbo]

Good info James. That might be something to put under "Tips and Tricks": How to ID an 351 Windsor vs Cleveland.

[fire truck]

LMAO!

[BigMike]

For me the easiest way to tell is that the thermostat housing doesn't go into the intake on a Cleveland.

[banjopicker66]

Sorry, double post!

[banjopicker66]

CLARIFICATION.

For me the easiest way to tell is that the thermostat housing doesn't go into the intake on a Cleveland.

Mike, all 335s have a dry intake.

The posted instructions are correct, but incomplete.
The discussion only pointed out the difference between the 335 series engines and the Windsor family. The 351C and 351M/400 engines look almost identical on the outside.

If you are not careful, you will mis-identify a 351M or a 400 as a Cleveland, which is an expensive mistake.
The distinctions are mostly in the internals, and if you don't have them side by side, you will miss it.
I went through this a year ago with an alleged 351C in a '78 LTD - but it was a 400, and looked almost identical to a 351C.

The 351C was manufactured '69 - '74, and the 351M/400 from '71 - '82, so I knew right away that it wasn't a Cleveland in spite of loud protestations to the contrary.

The easiest visual discriminator is on the block next to the distributor. There is about a 1" rib cast onto the block on the taller 351M/400 which runs along side the distributor going from the front of the block extension back to the intake manifold.
The 351C does not have this rib, and in all other respects, all the 335 blocks look similar enough that they are hard to distinguish if you are not well versed in how they look.

[BigMike]

CLARIFICATION.

For me the easiest way to tell is that the thermostat housing doesn't go into the intake on a Cleveland.

Mike, all 335s have a dry intake.

The posted instructions are correct, but incomplete.
The discussion only pointed out the difference between the 335 series engines and the Windsor family. The 351C and 351M/400 engines look almost identical on the outside.

If you are not careful, you will mis-identify a 351M or a 400 as a Cleveland, which is an expensive mistake.
The distinctions are mostly in the internals, and if you don't have them side by side, you will miss it.
I went through this a year ago with an alleged 351C in a '78 LTD - but it was a 400, and looked almost identical to a 351C.

The 351C was manufactured '69 - '74, and the 351M/400 from '71 - '82, so I knew right away that it wasn't a Cleveland in spite of loud protestations to the contrary.

The easiest visual discriminator is on the block next to the distributor. There is about a 1" rib cast onto the block on the taller 351M/400 which runs along side the distributor going from the front of the block extension back to the intake manifold.
The 351C does not have this rib, and in all other respects, all the 335 blocks look similar enough that they are hard to distinguish if you are not well versed in how they look.

Great info. Any pictures?

[BigMike]

I see it now

Cleveland


M

[Effie]

There's really a much, MUCH simpler way if you can't remember all that wet or dry intake business....

Valve cover bolts. Know these numbers, remember these numbers...

2 bolts: 239/256/272/292/312 (produced from 1954 to 1964)
5 bolts: 332/352/360/361/390/391/406/410/427/428 (FE engine)
6 bolts: 221/260/289/302/351W
7 bolts: 429/460 - 385 series
8 bolts: 351C/351M/400 - 335 series