y block rebuild

Obsa · Post by **Obsa** » August 19, 2009, 6:33 am

1961 slickwilly wrote:i want to atleast get 1 hp for cu.in. and would love to do the stroker kit. i also looked into putting a t5 in but which one would work because the mustang shifting postion is so far back but my truck will have seats and cosole from a 1999-2002 gmc. i also looked into putting a t18 or t19 in it. i would love to have a T5 but how will it bolt up and modifcations to the bell housing and input shaft etc.

Slickwilly, one of the beauty of the T-5 trans is that it was built in many different configurations. you can use the tailshaft housing from a T-5 built for a Chevy S-10 to get the shifter further forward. Or if you have the buckd to spend Tremec makes a version of the transmission still with multiple shifter locations. I will post a few links later. Just got up and it is hard to control my fingers till the meds kick in.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=169265

I havn't found the link with text yet but here is an image showing the different possible shifter locations

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:tkf ... KO-500.jpg

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » August 19, 2009, 8:36 am

RE the multiple shifter locations, I think you speak of the TKO.
I would avoid the TKO unless you are actually going to have the power to make use of it. It's heavier. It requires more power to drive. It costs about $600 more. There is very little, if anything available as far as adapters go to put a TKO behind a Y, so don't be surprised if You have to have several expensive parts made. Long story short, you can have a completely new T5 installed for a little more than the cost of the TKO alone. If you don't need it, don't spend the money and time installing it.
Now there is a 170 ft/lb gap between the strongest T5 and the TKO 500. Id say if you're going to be over 400 ft/lbs and abusing it regularly, go for the TKO. Another thing to consider is the T5 can be built to support power levels very near that of the TKO 500. So, even if you do break it, you can have it built and still not have much more in it than the TKO.
I know in the case of my 61 that the bench seat does not get in the way of the T5 shifter. A custom shift handle may need to be made. That's easy enough to do with a welder and torch. It's probably the same story for 62 - 64.

64 f100 · Post by **64 f100** » August 19, 2009, 9:21 am

I've done a few yblocks but mostly just stock. Some things you should be aware of. When using a stock crank, You have two size of stock bearings, what Ford called red and blue if I remmember right. On is .005 oversize, and one is .010 oversize. All rod and main bearings have to be individually plastigauged for fit. It's really easier to have the block mains lign honed first and have the crank turned and polished so you can just use 10 thousandths over bearings. I also suggest you have the block head surface taken down about 10 thousandths. Makes some improvement in compression ratio without spending a fortune. I believe Ford overestimated compression ratio's in these engines. That asside, why not loock for an engine that is already done? I am going to look at an engine this coming weekend. It has the new aluminum intake, Headers, big valve heads with stainless steel valves, reground cam, new lifters etc. . The engine is in of all things a one ton truck, go figure. Truck is a rough old gal, but I can buy it all for 1400. You would be money ahead to buy something like this, instead of building your own. The intake alone is 400$ headers 150, regrind cam 100, stainless valves 100$, hardened seats head rebuild etc. 400 and up , plus the cost of the heads. Ecz heads are not cheap. IF you want a set, I have these, and have a set of stainless valves for these heads.

Rich

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » August 19, 2009, 10:00 am

64 f100 wrote:I also suggest you have the block head surface taken down about 10 thousandths. Makes some improvement in compression ratio without spending a fortune.

Rich

This is some very good advice. I'll take it a little further and suggest that you get the increase in compression by cutting the block, rather than the head. The original gaskets were steel shim. You will likely use a composition gasket during the rebuild. The composition gaskets will set the heads about .020" farther from the piston, given that everything else remains the same. When you consider that fact that the pistons are already in the hole about .030" or more, this is not good. The Y-block uses a close chambered head - a quench head. Take a little time to get your piston to head clearance to about .045". You will have to pre-assemble the block, measure how deep your pistons are in the block when at top dead center, take that information back to the machinist so they can cut the deck appropriately. With the composition gaskets, 0'ing the block should be enough. By doing this, you will maximize compression while reducing the engines tendency to knock. Once this is done, you will likely be able to run regular gas even with the highest compression Y heads currently available, assuming a near stock build. In reality, the compression on an overbored 292 will not be much, if any more than 9:1 with flat top pistons. Once you start playing with the stroke, however, it can start to change rather dramatically.

64 f100 · Post by **64 f100** » August 19, 2009, 10:19 am

One thing I forgot to add, with the heads most likely already cut down when previous vlave jobs were done for head resurfacing, you might have to take a few thousandths of the intake manifold to fit properly.

Also SlickWilly, I have just been contacted by the guy I've been dealing with about the 427's, and may not buy the yblock engine of which I spoke. However, I will try to check it out. It's supposed to have less than a 100 miles on the engine. If interested I will kkeep you informed.

Have a great day,
Rich

1961 slickwilly · Post by **1961 slickwilly** » August 19, 2009, 10:57 pm

i doubt i can find a 292 thats built like i want it or even close to the way i want it. i cant even find o stock one or even one to build in my area my grandpaw has one that he got in buying a truck package deal its suppose to run but he wont price it to me . if i got this one i could build it and still have my truck running and go ahead and do the t5 swap that way wen i get the yblock built the way i want it it will be just be a simple motor swap

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » August 19, 2009, 11:14 pm

Don't pay too much for a Y. Some people think they are made of gold for some reason. I wouldn't pay more than $150 for one that's seized - and that's only if it has some good heads and/or manifold attached - and not more than $250 for one that turns over but you do not hear running. Much more than that and it needs to be a running engine. If someone says it was running when pulled, assume that it does not run.
Oh, and a lot of them tend to become 312's when they're for sale. Learn how to identify them.

1961 slickwilly · Post by **1961 slickwilly** » August 20, 2009, 12:01 am

how do i identifie them? like i mentioned earlier in this thread this is really the only block i've messed with. never been around them enough to identifie them

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » August 20, 2009, 7:05 am

Go to www.ford-y-block.com. In the technical section there are lists of casting numbers for blocks, cranks, heads, etc. Print them out and familiarize yourself with them. The tricky part is that it is difficult to distinguish a 312 from a 292. The best way is to pull the oil pan and see which main caps are installed. However, if the price is right, I wouldn't worry too much about it being a 292 or 312.
If it's a 1956 block, a 292 may be the better choice. They had a very high torque spec for the main caps which caused many 312 blocks to crack at the main webs. I believe a corrected spec was introduced for 1957 so most 57 and later 312 should be alright. The main bolt spacing is the same for a 292 and 312. With the 312's larger main diameter, less material is in the main web and so the excess torque caused the block to crack.

1961 slickwilly · Post by **1961 slickwilly** » August 20, 2009, 5:23 pm

oh ok so i need to watch out for those. the motor my grandpaw has and has finally priced to me. is out of a 60 factory 4x4 crew cab. the guy that has the truck is a friend of ours and bought the 59 that my grandpaw bought from him for the bed but when he bought the truck it had a extra 292 in the back so he built it put it in the 60 and pulled the 292 out of the 60 and sold it and the running 59 to my grandpaw so when i go back out to our shop i'll have to look it over

jakdad · Post by **jakdad** » August 20, 2009, 10:39 pm

Here are some cams Isky has for the Y-Block. The E-4 and RPM 300s are good street grinds. I have run the 505 T series in a circle track car but it's no good for the street.

http://www.iskycams.com/pdfcatalog/2004-05/page128.pdf

64 f100 · Post by **64 f100** » August 21, 2009, 7:35 am

Willy, I have a couple yblocks that are siezed, and would sell either one for 25$. Both are 292 out of slicks. Know of several others in my area. Just remmeber, the ECG heads with big valves are not so easily found, and pricey, plus head work is expensive. All parts for a y block are expensive, and sometimes hard to come by.

Rich

Michelle · Post by **Michelle** » August 21, 2009, 4:21 pm

Speaking of Y blocks, I will tell you a funny story. I am ruining a 71 Boss 351 C engine in my 56 F100. It is a decent running truck and lots of fun to drive. One night I was hanging out with a few friends in an area near Pasadena Texas that would occasionally bring out a few street racers looking for some action. This one kid that looked to be about early to mid twenties dropped in driving an early seventies Chevy truck with a small block Chevy in it. He had it decked out with a big Holly, headers, aluminum intake and some other goodies, he was looking to eat a Fords lunch. Being the only woman in the bunch he migrated over to me thinking I would be an easy mark. We squared off and it was not even a race. I beat him severely. I had thought may be that he has missed a gear or something. When we made it back to the meeting place he wanted to know what I had under the hood. I told him it was nothing special, just a 312 engine out if an old 57 T-Bird. Of course he wanted to see it so I raised the hood and he took a good look and said "wow, I would have never believed that an engine that old would run as good as that one does" The youngster never figured out that it was a Cleveland engine in the truck. Before the evening was over I gave him one of my infamous business cards saying you have just been beat by the Little Old Lady from Pasadena driving the 56 F100 Flying Purple People Eater. The card was what I called the third prong of triple intimidation. First he was beat by a Ford, second he was beat by a woman, and third he got the card.

64 f100 · Post by **64 f100** » August 23, 2009, 11:00 am

Willy, I bought the whole truck the motor was in. Motor sounded really good, but the exhaust was not hooked up, and the lifters needed adjusting, and he had not put in a petronix ignitor, so that needs to be addressed before it runs exactly as good as it could. I think the carb is a little small also. I am going to take this engine back out, once I get it home, and dialed in right. Not sure if I will use it as I already have most of what I need to build one the way I want it. I have plently of trucks that could use the engine though. I wanted the truck to build a welding truck out of, possibly with a winch and gin poles also. Will be looking into installing a big block in truck, possibly a 460 with overdrive transmission or do a body swap to a later diesel with more amenities. I aready have a 61 Lincoln welding machine for it. Intend on doing a nostalga welding rig. Some day, I will finish my 64 and my grandsons 66. Most likely the grandsons 66 will come first though.

Have a great day,
Rich
Rich

1961 slickwilly · Post by **1961 slickwilly** » August 23, 2009, 11:46 am

whata are you going to ask for the motor? 64f100

unibodyboy · Post by **unibodyboy** » August 23, 2009, 7:54 pm

In my pickup, I have a Y block with a T-5 Behind it. Does 100 mph @ 3300 RPMS. 3.73 posi Dana 44. I'm now at 2100 RPMS @ 70 MPH, and at that speed I actually have to raise my RPMS to get a good downshift into 4th and downshift. It's insane really. I may even raise my rear end ratio to 4.11. Sure, it's more expensive-- but keep in mind that your rebuilding an antique. If you can't do it now, maybe consider waiting for some amount of time until you can afford it because the wait will be well worth it.

Maybe I should take a video so you guys can understand what I am talking about.