Transmission/Starter ID

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 11:20 am

Hey gang, I need some help ID'ing my Transmission and starter.
My truck is a 1965 F-100 with a 352. I don't think it's the original engine that came with the truck, in fact I'm not sure about much with this one. It's been heavily modified and I bought it from a guy who bought it from the builder.
Bottom line is I need a new starter. I pulled the old one and bench tested it. I took it to the auto parts store, and they had no idea how to match it. They brought me the one that the computer showed for a 65 and it was a bit diffrent. It had the onboard solenoid, but it was of a different design and had a cover over it (heat shield maybe?) The mounting holes looked to be in the same spots, but neither one was threaded. My starter has the onboard solenoid, with no cover and the lower mounting hole is threaded. I could't find an id plate on it with a part number so there was no way to cross refrence.
As for the transmission, it's an automatic (3 speed I believe). I couldn't find an ID plate on it either.
What are some possible automatic trannys that could be put behind a 352? How can I figure out what it is, and what starter I need?
Anyone?

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 11:54 am

stevechaos13 wrote:Hey gang, I need some help ID'ing my Transmission and starter.
My truck is a 1965 F-100 with a 352. I don't think it's the original engine that came with the truck, in fact I'm not sure about much with this one. It's been heavily modified and I bought it from a guy who bought it from the builder.
Bottom line is I need a new starter. I pulled the old one and bench tested it. I took it to the auto parts store, and they had no idea how to match it. They brought me the one that the computer showed for a 65 and it was a bit diffrent. It had the onboard solenoid, but it was of a different design and had a cover over it (heat shield maybe?) The mounting holes looked to be in the same spots, but neither one was threaded. My starter has the onboard solenoid, with no cover and the lower mounting hole is threaded. I could't find an id plate on it with a part number so there was no way to cross refrence.
As for the transmission, it's an automatic (3 speed I believe). I couldn't find an ID plate on it either.
What are some possible automatic trannys that could be put behind a 352? How can I figure out what it is, and what starter I need?
Anyone?

Cruiso-O-Matic MX or C-6 are the only ones Ford would have used in a truck behind a FE. If you post a pic of trans pan I can tell you which trans you have. C-6 is a large pan with the right rear having a notch around the modulator, a 65 with FE would have a FMX trans stock.

a C-6 will have 17 pan bolts

Pic of starter? if it has solonoid on starter it could be a 429/460 style. how many bolts hold it on? 2 for 429/460 & 3 for FE, sure its a FE?

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:03 pm

post a pic of starter and I can tell you how to find one.

the tag on a MX style trans which would be stock in 65 is put on with a rivet of sorts on left side (drivers) of trans just behind where shifter linkage goes into trans. The modulator is also on left side.

C-6 the tag attached with bolt on the Servo cover on right side, the modulator is also on right side.

The C-6 has built in bellhousing and trans is all aluminum except for CJ which has a cast iron tail shaft

MX on other had has a separate bell housing with cast iron case,

yours would most likely be a PdB-A trans if original

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » February 18, 2009, 12:17 pm

only older starter i seem to recall with a threaded hole is for the 6/302.
No fe starters have threaded holes.

i have all the starters in my barn so i will go look later on.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 12:27 pm

Thanks guys
Barnyard, I'm really thinking it's a C6. Mainly because of the pan you described. I didn't count the bolts, but I'm pretty sure it's notched like you described on the right hand side.
Two bolts hold it on. One threaded bolt hole, one non-threaded somwhere near 180 degrees apart.

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:31 pm

here are a couple pics of new 429/460 starters I have laying around.

upper bolt hole in starter is threaded as bolt goes from back side.
does your starter look like this?

FE has the 3 bolts already mentioned all going from front side.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 12:32 pm

The problem is that I don't really know muhc at all about the whole setup. I couldn't ask the builder, and the guy I bought the truck from didn't know anything really. Sometimes I wonder if it is a 352 or not. Isn't a 352 and 390 the same block? How do you tell them apart?
I don't think it's the stock Transmission because they chopped out the rear brace that would normally go under the tranny to allow for pan clearance.
I can get pics, but I won't be able to post them until tomorrow.

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:34 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks guys
Barnyard, I'm really thinking it's a C6. Mainly because of the pan you described. I didn't count the bolts, but I'm pretty sure it's notched like you described on the right hand side.
Two bolts hold it on. One threaded bolt hole, one non-threaded somwhere near 180 degrees apart.

Then its most likely not a 352 but a 429 or 460.

the FMX has 14 pan bolts

check out the pic. the starter you need is a SC3142.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 12:35 pm

That looks pretty close backyard. The top bolt does go from the back and the lower one goes in from the front.
Is that shield over the solenoid removable?

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:38 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:The problem is that I don't really know muhc at all about the whole setup. I couldn't ask the builder, and the guy I bought the truck from didn't know anything really. Sometimes I wonder if it is a 352 or not. Isn't a 352 and 390 the same block? How do you tell them apart?
I don't think it's the stock Transmission because they chopped out the rear brace that would normally go under the tranny to allow for pan clearance.
I can get pics, but I won't be able to post them until tomorrow.

my guess is now 99% a 429 or 460. It will have 7 valve cover bolts.

the 352/390/427/428 etc have only 5 valve cover bolts and the top 3 bolt into the super wide intake manifold.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 12:39 pm

BackyardResto wrote:
stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks guys
Barnyard, I'm really thinking it's a C6. Mainly because of the pan you described. I didn't count the bolts, but I'm pretty sure it's notched like you described on the right hand side.
Two bolts hold it on. One threaded bolt hole, one non-threaded somwhere near 180 degrees apart.
Then its most likely not a 352 but a 429 or 460.

the FMX has 14 pan bolts

check out the pic. the starter you need is a SC3142.

I just googled a 429 and a 460, and it might be.
How can I tell?

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:40 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks guys
Barnyard, I'm really thinking it's a C6. Mainly because of the pan you described. I didn't count the bolts, but I'm pretty sure it's notched like you described on the right hand side.
Two bolts hold it on. One threaded bolt hole, one non-threaded somwhere near 180 degrees apart.

this is 429/460 and most likely what you have

above is 390-427 style this one being a 427 hi-riser

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 12:44 pm

I haven't open it up yet. So those pics dont' really help. I can take some pics from my cell phone and post them in a bit. It is a massive motor and does have a really wide intake running a holly 4 barrel. Honestly, I don't know a whole lot about Ford engines, so I kinda took the guy for what he told me, but like I said, he didn't even really know.
What else can I look at to help me identify it?

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:45 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:
BackyardResto wrote:
stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks guys
Barnyard, I'm really thinking it's a C6. Mainly because of the pan you described. I didn't count the bolts, but I'm pretty sure it's notched like you described on the right hand side.
Two bolts hold it on. One threaded bolt hole, one non-threaded somwhere near 180 degrees apart.
Then its most likely not a 352 but a 429 or 460.

the FMX has 14 pan bolts

check out the pic. the starter you need is a SC3142.
I just googled a 429 and a 460, and it might be.
How can I tell?

no doubt a 429/460

look for casting numbers and or date codes to help determine which one.

ON a FE the oil filter bolts to an adaptor which bolts to block, on a 429/460 the oil filter threads directly to block, has the 7 valve cover bolts,
another biggie is the timing cover, a 460 the water pump bolts to the timing cover on a FE it does not, look at exhaust port exit another big diff, the FE has a rounded bell housing as the 460 is not. I will dig up a few pics give me a minute. Could you post pics of yours?

also check out the different spark plug configuration, the FE the center 2 tilt towards each other, the 460 as in pic.

is starter like the one I posted?

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 12:52 pm

I'm about to go check all the things you mentioned.
Yes, the starter is very much like that one, except no heat shield.

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 12:59 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:I'm about to go check all the things you mentioned.
Yes, the starter is very much like that one, except no heat shield.

then go to NAPA and pic up the 3142SC Starter, make sure you have a good chassis to engine ground and you are good to go.

If by application tell them its for any 68-79 460 with automatic trans.

Or you could get a much smaller gear reduction type but a bunch more money.

I am curious as to exactly which 429/460 you have.

Look for casting number above center two plugs like in my pic

see if its a C3VE, C9VE or a DOVE casting. or if it happens to be a D0OE-R you are in luck along with D2OE

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 1:34 pm

7 bolts on the valve covers
17 bolts on the tranny.
Didn't have enough time to look for the casting numbers though.
Why are those casting numbers the ones to have?

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » February 18, 2009, 1:39 pm

Here are some easy tips to ID an FE (352/360/390 etc) from a 385 (370/429/460):

FE:
Valve covers overlap the intake manifold.
Exhaust bolts are above and below the ports.
352 is stamped on the block, driver's side, below the head.
Thermostat is in the manifold, flat on the front, perpendicular to the ground.

385:
Valve covers are only on the heads.
Exhaust bolts are on the sides of the ports.
Thermostat is on top of the manifold, flat on the top, parallel to the gound.

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 2:13 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:7 bolts on the valve covers
17 bolts on the tranny.
Didn't have enough time to look for the casting numbers though.
Why are those casting numbers the ones to have?

the D0OE-R is a 429 Cobra Jet the D2OE-AB is a Police interceptor.

By casting number we can determine what engine is from.

Is it a aluminum or cast iron intake? Once you have the starter out look for block casting number too. Date code will be under intake but can pretty much be determined by the casting numbers.

Better yet would be C9AE or D0AE Boss 429 heads... LOL

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 18, 2009, 2:23 pm

Thanks for all your help man.
I'm pretty sure that the intake is cast.
I'm really not suprised by all this. Like I said, the guy knew nothing about the truck, but I was wondering why there were so many modifications to the frame if it was still running the stock block and tranny.
From what I've seen, a 385 series is a really desirable motor, but I don't know a lot about them. What did they come in originally? How many horsepower? What's the MPG?
What all should I know about this motor?

Transmission/Starter ID

Transmission/Starter ID

Re: Transmission/Starter ID