Transmission/Starter ID

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » February 18, 2009, 2:51 pm

FE (390 shown here)
[albumimg]561[/albumimg]

429/460

easy to look at the water pumps and tell too.

Hoss123 · Post by **Hoss123** » February 18, 2009, 5:47 pm

Not sure if you figured the tranny out yet but here is a good link that shows different patterns

http://www.autotran.us/fmABpg21.htm

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 18, 2009, 8:14 pm

stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks for all your help man.
I'm pretty sure that the intake is cast.
I'm really not suprised by all this. Like I said, the guy knew nothing about the truck, but I was wondering why there were so many modifications to the frame if it was still running the stock block and tranny.
From what I've seen, a 385 series is a really desirable motor, but I don't know a lot about them. What did they come in originally? How many horsepower? What's the MPG?
What all should I know about this motor?

the 385 series engines are much better than the 352-360-390 versions.
I would prefer the 65-68 427's over the FE but thats about it. Have owned dozens and dozens of each but still like them all.

Would be interesting to see which version you have in your truck. date codes and casting number would tell us that.

Big trucks and buses had 370 & 429's, starting in 1968 you could get a 460 in a lincoln and a 429 in T-Bird and full size fords. Minimum compression from 68-71 was 10.0 to 1, starting in 72 the compression dropped way down with the emissions thing. the 460's started being avail in pickups in 1973-1997 maybe into 1998 which had 2 different 250's the new and old body style. The 385 series engines were pretty good engines right from the beginning.

For 385 series mods with cast iron heads I prefer the PI or D3VE to start with up to around 500hp after that a good aluminum head is needed.
They were not prone to leaking oil as much as a FE, better fuel economy too. With todays aftermarket parts you can go to any HP level desired depending on the checkbook.. LOL

so to finish your question on what they came in:any full size from 68 up to well in the mid late 70's. Torino's/Cyclones 70-71, 69-71 mustangs, (Boss & CJ) also torinos and full size after 72. Pickups from 73-97 and the list goes on. I have been selling off a bunch of my 385 series parts but still have quite a bit of stuff left along with a 69 Mark III with the neat crank mounted power steering pump which I seriously thought of putting in my slick using some new Kaase Boss 9 heads.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 19, 2009, 9:10 am

Thanks for all that info man, you guys have been very helpful.
The casting number on my heads is D2VE-AA which a quick search told me are the worst ones out there due to being prone to detonation in a high performance situation. It also suggests that my motor is probably a 429 out of a 72 T-Bird.

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » February 19, 2009, 9:52 am

stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks for all that info man, you guys have been very helpful.
The casting number on my heads is D2VE-AA which a quick search told me are the worst ones out there due to being prone to detonation in a high performance situation. It also suggests that my motor is probably a 429 out of a 72 T-Bird.

I assume your engine is a 4V since a Tbird did not come with a 2V like big Ford cars did so I should point out that it could just as easily be a 460 from a Lincoln. The only time you know it is a 429 for sure is when it is a 2V engine. The 429 and 460 are identical except for stroke so you need to measure that before you can determine what size it is. It has been my experience that used Lincoln engines are much easier to get as the cars tend to get scrapped sooner than cheaper models just because of the way the market works. The D2VE heads do suck comparatively but in a street motor with significant mods you will never likely notice the difference.JMO Hawkrod

BackyardRest · Post by **BackyardRest** » February 19, 2009, 11:21 am

stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks for all that info man, you guys have been very helpful.
The casting number on my heads is D2VE-AA which a quick search told me are the worst ones out there due to being prone to detonation in a high performance situation. It also suggests that my motor is probably a 429 out of a 72 T-Bird.

As Hawkrod said check the stroke. there is such a difference its easy to do

the 385 series comes from Stroke on the 460 of 3.85" the 429 is 3.59"
so .260" diff should be pretty easy to measure

What are your plans with the truck/engine? Parts are so cheap and plentiful its not a big issue.

My slick #3 for sure is getting a 385 series motor of some sort. Have a lot more 385 series parts than I do FE stuff.

How did you make out with the starter. Would like to see pics of the truck too!

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 19, 2009, 11:25 am

Thanks Hawkrod.
What is a good way to measure stroke?

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 19, 2009, 11:34 am

BackyardResto wrote:
stevechaos13 wrote:Thanks for all that info man, you guys have been very helpful.
The casting number on my heads is D2VE-AA which a quick search told me are the worst ones out there due to being prone to detonation in a high performance situation. It also suggests that my motor is probably a 429 out of a 72 T-Bird.
As Hawkrod said check the stroke. there is such a difference its easy to do

the 385 series comes from Stroke on the 460 of 3.85" the 429 is 3.59"
so .260" diff should be pretty easy to measure

What are your plans with the truck/engine? Parts are so cheap and plentiful its not a big issue.

My slick #3 for sure is getting a 385 series motor of some sort. Have a lot more 385 series parts than I do FE stuff.

How did you make out with the starter. Would like to see pics of the truck too!

Cool man, thanks.
Well, the truck is supposed to be my DD and hauler for the time being. I haven't had it long, and haven't really had time to tear into it too much. It's pretty much exactly as I bought it. It's the one in my avatar. It's got a lot of hillbilly work doen to it, so my main focus is getting it back to something reliable.
It needs a complete rewire both under the hood and under the dash. It needs a new dash. It's running bucket seats that I want to scrap and go back to a bench. It's also running a GM Colum out of a Caddy (not sure why...)And it needs some mild body work.
That's the bad, the good is it's got dual flowmasters on it, a big Holly 4B (not sure which one), a nice wide set of American Racing wheels, and has a 4 inch drop in the rear.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 19, 2009, 11:47 am

There's a couple of shots of what I'm working on...

36truck · Post by **36truck** » February 19, 2009, 12:11 pm

Just a couple of wires need help.

DCarr · Post by **DCarr** » February 19, 2009, 12:16 pm

Steve, I noticed your PCV system is not operating. Get a single outlet pcv valve(the one on the pass. side) & hook up the plugged oil filler cap with a hose that goes from the filler cap to the base of the air cleaner.You may have to fabricate a connection to the air cleaner base if it doesn't already have one.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 19, 2009, 12:25 pm

Any Idea why it's been capped off like that?

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » February 19, 2009, 12:29 pm

To check stroke you can use a small diameter wooden dowl and remove a spark plug. You stick the dowl into the cylinder to the top of the piston and then turn the crank with a wrench until the piston is as low as it will go. Mark the dowl where it enters the hole. Then turn teh crank until the piston is as high as it will go and mark the dowl again using the same spot where it enters the hole as a reference point. Now measure the difference between the two marks. A 460 is 3.85 inches and a 429 is 3.59. So if it just over 3 3/4 it is a 460 and just over 3 1/2 it is a 429. Hawkrod

DCarr · Post by **DCarr** » February 19, 2009, 8:33 pm

Probably capped off by PO because the aftermarket air cleaner he installed
likely does not have the fitting for the hose-you may need to find one
at the parts store.

stevechaos13 · Post by **stevechaos13** » February 20, 2009, 9:07 am

Couldn't I just run a breather cap?

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » February 20, 2009, 8:17 pm

stevechaos13
Hi there I am from the northwest not to far from backyard resto. From the pix it looks like the ID tag on the drivers side has been painted over. You might be able to gently remove some paint and find the engine CID on the tag. The tranny is most likely a C6. For right now, if the engine does run I would treat it like a 429. Tune up is the same for both engines. I would look for a dura spark system to up grade the dizzy as it appears to be a points style. Just get it cleaned up and a good tune and you will be pleased with the setup assuming the PO did a good install.

DCarr · Post by **DCarr** » February 20, 2009, 9:53 pm

Yes, you could run a breather cap- but not a very efficient air supply for
the pcv. If you do that you might as well ashcan the pcv valve and put a
breather cap on that side also.

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » February 20, 2009, 10:44 pm

DCarr wrote:Yes, you could run a breather cap- but not a very efficient air supply for
the pcv. If you do that you might as well ashcan the pcv valve and put a
breather cap on that side also.

You should never remove the PCV for any reason. The PCV is vital to engine health. It will work just fine with a vented cap. Removing a PCV causes extra engine wear, shorter bearing life and oil leaks. Removing a PCV is really, REALLY a bad suggestion. The stock systems used either a vented breather cap or a breather vented with a hose into the air cleaner. Either way it works exactly the same. Hawkrod

DCarr · Post by **DCarr** » February 20, 2009, 11:32 pm

If you read my previous posts to Steve I suggested that he hook up the air supply
back to the base of the air cleaner where it belongs. IMHO the small breather
caps are a poor supply of air to the pcv-they are small, plug with contaminates
easily , and are almost never washed out by the owners. Air cleaner elements
are replaced more often by owners, assuring a clean air supply to the pcv.
By the way ,do you have some published data about the premature wear,shorter bearing life, & oil leaks- just curious. Thanks, David.

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » February 21, 2009, 9:04 am

DCarr wrote:If you read my previous posts to Steve I suggested that he hook up the air supply
back to the base of the air cleaner where it belongs. IMHO the small breather
caps are a poor supply of air to the pcv-they are small, plug with contaminates
easily , and are almost never washed out by the owners. Air cleaner elements
are replaced more often by owners, assuring a clean air supply to the pcv.
By the way ,do you have some published data about the premature wear,shorter bearing life, & oil leaks- just curious. Thanks, David.

First, an FYI, originally, hoses that went to the air cleaner did not draw air from inside the element, they simply drew air from inside of the housing OUTSIDE of teh element. Check out any Ford older than 70 as they were all that way, second a breather cap is still just fine as long as some air flows. If it is so bad it is plugged then the owner has other issues. Finally, yes, there are plenty of published studies, hundreds actually and plenty of SAE papers on the subject. The oil companies really did the brunt of the work in this area as it directly related to oil ratings. The acids that form from moisture and combustion byproducts break down the oil, erode soft bearing surfaces, rust iron, and cause deposits to form. The pressure from combustion blow by pressurizes the crankcase leading directly to oil being blown past sealing surfaces, breathers, no matter how large do not reduce leakage in areas such as main seals dues to the fact that unless you vent the bottom area of the block there is still higher pressure in the crankcase than in the heads. Also, on an otherwise stock engine, pressure inside the valve cover will also be higher than ambient air pressure outside of the engine and the presure differential inside the engine will cause oil to be forced down the intake valve stems. Unfortunately, most people have not bothered to even look into the issue. These benefits are well covered and a web search will provide some of what you are asking about but any automotive enginerering course will provide in depth detailed analysis. The PCV is an emssisions device with a Positive benefit! Hawkrod

From www.filtercouncil.org Administered by Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association:
http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/94-2R1.pdf

From Wisconsin Motors, a small engine manufacturer:
http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/partc/op ... s/misc.pdf