Slick 60's

I have an '65 Ford F250 that I putter around in during the summer months.
It seems to have puttered out on me though.

It will turn over and give the initial "rush" as I turn the key and step on the gas, but then it dies out. Initially I thought it was a fuel pump, but this morning I took the carb top off and the reservoir is full of gas, so its definitely pumping gas up to the carb itself.

Everything sounds normal when I try to turn it over, it just wont keep running. It doesn't putter out or anything it just does that initial "vroom" then stops.

Suggestions?

Disclaimer: I am a "learn as you go mechanic" if you can't tell already. I know enough to get into trouble and to find my way through simple problems and the like. I love working on engines and the like, but I've never had the opportunity to do so, and my truck is my outlet for such adventures.

Thanks in advance.

Almost sounds like you have an electrical problem. It may have ignition when in the starting position, then it fires, you let off the key, no more feed to the coil. As I remember, the pink wire is plugged into a connector close to the ignition switch, could have become unplugged. Just a thought.

Fred

i am thinking Fred hit it on the head...
simple to test, turn key to run position & check for voltage at coil

Homerboy,

At this point in time I'd say your best move would be to purchase a Chilton's or Hayne's truck manual. They can be ordered thru Amazon or most any online bookstore or from your local bookstore down the street. They are available in used condition for less than $3 or new for less than $16. They have a troubleshooting section that would VERY helpful to you and would explain things quicker, better and in much more detail than you'll likely get here. This is one example: http://www.amazon.com/Pick-Ups-1965-86- ... 481&sr=1-4

But until then try this:
Block a tire both front and back and put the transmission in neutral to prevent any vehicle movement. With the engine off and the air cleaner off the carb, activate (move by hand) the accelerator linkage while looking down the inlet of the carb. Do you see gasoline spray slightly? If not, then you may have crap plugging up some of the fuel delivery passages in the carb - indicating a carb cleaning is in order. If you do see fuel being sprayed, fine.... then it is not likely a fuel issue. Move on to the ignition side of things and check for good spark.

Carefully remove a sparkplug wire by grasping the wire by the boot (the heavy end over the sparkplug) and while giving it a slight twist, pulll it off the sparkplug. If you have a short piece of hose (approx. 2ft long), place one end near the sparkplug then blow with your mouth as hard as you can thru the other end to dislodge any/all rust debris that may be laying around the base of the sparkplug. Now with a sparkplug socket, remove the sparkplug and give it a good inspection for any cracks in the porcelain sections or any oily/carbon/charcoal-like buildup on the electrode end of the sparkplug. If it looks to be in good shape and fairly dry and oi-free at the electrode end, this is good. If not, then it is likely a sparkplug change is necessary. This would also be a good time to take the extra step and purchase new sparkplug wires too. Replace them one at a time so as to NOT mix up the wire placement on the distributor cap or how the wires are routed on the engine.

However, if the sparkplug looks good, then proceed to check for spark. Do not re-install the sparkplug yet, rather insert the sparkplug into the sparkplug wire boot and hold the sparkplug wire with sparkplug allowing the bottom electrode to rest against a bolt head on the intake manifold - you're trying to get a good ground for it. While you hold the wire/plug against the bolt head, have a helper turn the key as if to start the engine. You should see a bright blue spark fire across the two electrodes at the base of the sparkplug. If you do not, wiggle the plug a bit to ensure you've got it grounded on the bolt and try it again. If still no spark, then it sounds like you've got an ignition issue and you should proceed to further troubleshooting the ignition system. Such as inspecting the inside of the distributor cap, rotor, checking for fire at the distributor end of the coil wire, then 12Volts at the coil, etc. as you work your way back up the system. All of these procedures are stepped out & provided in the manual that you're going to order, right?

Good Luck & keep us posted with your progress!
BarnieTrk

thanks for the quick replies everyone. I'll do some trouble shooting as you all recommended ASAP. Of course its stuck on the street across from the school so its a tad busy out there right now. Hopefully I'll get some results soon and get back you all.... I'm going to check that pink wire right now

I pulled 2 plugs off the left (passenger's) side and they are caked in oil and residue (entirely black from the nut down in fact). So, I'm going to guess its that... safe bet? Pink wire etc was all still connected, though it looks like there was some electrical hacking and splicing going on many years ago on the ignition switch.

That being said, I know you mentioned not to mix up the wires etc... which I fully understand. However, is there a way to see the correct wiring? I did plugs on the truck about 3 years ago or so, and I will unhappily admit, I think I may have messed some up at that time.

I have the original shop manuals from 1965, I assume its all in there...

Homerboy wrote:I pulled 2 plugs off the left (passenger's) side and they are caked in oil and residue (entirely black from the nut down in fact). So, I'm going to guess its that... safe bet?

Sounds like a good place to start. You may want to get new sparkplugs that are one step hotter than stock issue sparkplugs. What size engine do you have in your '65 F250?

Pink wire etc was all still connected, though it looks like there was some electrical hacking and splicing going on many years ago on the ignition switch.

Put that on your 'To Do' list -- replace/repair messed up wiring at coil.

That being said, I know you mentioned not to mix up the wires etc... which I fully understand. However, is there a way to see the correct wiring?

Yep, since you have the original shop manuals, the firing order for your engine should be listed in it. If you're still have a FoMoCo-issued intake manifold, many times the timing order is cast right into the top of the manifold. Take a look on the intake runners for a series of numbers like, '153624 order'.


I did plugs on the truck about 3 years ago or so, and I will unhappily admit, I think I may have messed some up at that time.

If you had the sparkplug wiring order switched around I wouldn't think that you'd drive it 3 years that way...as it would backfire, miss, spit & sputter, lack of power, very poor mileage, etc. with mixed-up sparkplug wires.

I have the original shop manuals from 1965, I assume its all in there...

Good Luck & keep us posted on your progress!

BarnieTrk

Are you running points or electronic ignition?
Either way as said above the ignition system gets power from two sources. During running power is supplied through the pink resistor wire.
During cranking power is supplied from a bypass wire that originates at the starter solenoid.
The pink wire and or it's connections degrade over time until it will barely run and has lousy acceleration.
Points can also present these symptoms, as they wear out there is a point where they will still start the engine at full voltage but not at the lower run level voltage.
In an emergency don't dump me out here mode you can regap the plugs down to about .010" (10thousandths) and it will take less voltage to fire the plugs and you can limp home.

I am not a points person but I think that the test is to turn the engine over until the points are closed.
With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.
Tech

tech wrote:Are you running points or electronic ignition?
Either way as said above the ignition system gets power from two sources. During running power is supplied through the pink resistor wire.
During cranking power is supplied from a bypass wire that originates at the starter solenoid.
The pink wire and or it's connections degrade over time until it will barely run and has lousy acceleration.
Points can also present these symptoms, as they wear out there is a point where they will still start the engine at full voltage but not at the lower run level voltage.
In an emergency don't dump me out here mode you can regap the plugs down to about .010" (10thousandths) and it will take less voltage to fire the plugs and you can limp home.

I am not a points person but I think that the test is to turn the engine over until the points are closed.
With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.
Tech

This is where my ignorance comes into play... honestly I don't know if its points or electronic ignition. The distributor has certainly been replaced "recently" just by the looks of it. I would assume at this point its electronic ignition.

BarnieTrk wrote:

Homerboy wrote:I pulled 2 plugs off the left (passenger's) side and they are caked in oil and residue (entirely black from the nut down in fact). So, I'm going to guess its that... safe bet?

Sounds like a good place to start. You may want to get new sparkplugs that are one step hotter than stock issue sparkplugs. What size engine do you have in your '65 F250?

Pink wire etc was all still connected, though it looks like there was some electrical hacking and splicing going on many years ago on the ignition switch.

Put that on your 'To Do' list -- replace/repair messed up wiring at coil.

That being said, I know you mentioned not to mix up the wires etc... which I fully understand. However, is there a way to see the correct wiring?

Yep, since you have the original shop manuals, the firing order for your engine should be listed in it. If you're still have a FoMoCo-issued intake manifold, many times the timing order is cast right into the top of the manifold. Take a look on the intake runners for a series of numbers like, '153624 order'.


I did plugs on the truck about 3 years ago or so, and I will unhappily admit, I think I may have messed some up at that time.

If you had the sparkplug wiring order switched around I wouldn't think that you'd drive it 3 years that way...as it would backfire, miss, spit & sputter, lack of power, very poor mileage, etc. with mixed-up sparkplug wires.

I have the original shop manuals from 1965, I assume its all in there...

Good Luck & keep us posted on your progress!

BarnieTrk

" You may want to get new sparkplugs that are one step hotter than stock issue sparkplugs."

eh??

ok, I got my plugs in and gapped them right.

Onto the wires thought and the distributor...

Per the shop manual, it shows the #1 wire at 6 o'clock, but on the distributor cap, the "1" stamped into the top was at 2 o'clock. I tried flipping it around to 7'oclock (closer to 6 right?) and running the wires per the shop manual from that. But she wouldn't even turn over now, with a little sputter/backfire.

I then assume that it has to be at 2 o'clock where the cap was when I opened the hood this morning? Then run the wires per the manual starting with the "1" that is now at 2 oclock and not 6 oclock?

For what is worth, I did have a couple of wires crossed I think before all this started.

upon further work, it was not the plugs. regardless, at least they are changed out....

now I gotta figure out all this electrical mumbo jumbo you guys are taking about.

tech wrote: With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.
Tech

trying to follow the above advice/steps

I sadly dont have a volt meter, so I borrowed my neighbors:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/Produ...name=FlukeUnitedStates

I can't get the thing to show me anything but ohms though. I go across the coil and it shows me 1.8 ohms or so... great. I need to know volts.
I HATE electrical more than ANYTHING

If the distributor has one small wire that comes out below the cap and goes directly to the coil then you have points.
If you have two or more small wires that go anywhere else you have electronic ignition.

What is the Fluke model number?

It is not a problem to start the firing order somewhere other than no.1. It just means that whoever replaced the distributor didn't get the gears timed properly when they put the distributor in. One way is no more right than the other except that's where the manual said it should go. A replacement distributor may have a feature that caused it to be installed differently.
Tech

tech wrote:If the distributor has one small wire that comes out below the cap and goes directly to the coil then you have points.
If you have two or more small wires that go anywhere else you have electronic ignition.

What is the Fluke model number?

It is not a problem to start the firing order somewhere other than no.1. It just means that whoever replaced the distributor didn't get the gears timed properly when they put the distributor in. One way is no more right than the other except that's where the manual said it should go. A replacement distributor may have a feature that caused it to be installed differently.
Tech

Yeah its points then.
The Fluke model number is linked there
7-600
I got the wires/distributor "issue" resolved now.

You want to put it in the vcheck position and then probably push the yellow button until it reads VDC Volts Direct Current on the center right of the display.
Tech

tech wrote:You want to put it in the vcheck position and then probably push the yellow button until it reads VDC Volts Direct Current on the center right of the display.
Tech

Thats the thing, there are no "options" or buttons or dials or anything. It just says "automatic"



Wasn't there another lengthy post in this thread a min ago with VERY detailed directions? I hit refresh and it disappeared?!?!?

Edit: yeah there was another long detailed post that was removed
http://fordtruk.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 586#104586 was the link to it... bummer.

I just tried the volt meter across the battery itself, 12V just fine. It seems to just auto adjust from Ohm to V if there is a current there or something.
That said, since I'm trying to measure across the coil with the key in the "run" position" and I'm getting nothing, am I to assume the coil is bad?

[quote="

Wasn't there another lengthy post in this thread a min ago with VERY detailed directions? I hit refresh and it disappeared?!?!?

Edit: yeah there was another long detailed post that was removed :(
http://fordtruk.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 586#104586 was the link to it... bummer.[/quote]


I had posted, then re-read the thread. Most of what I had written was covered by Tech. Not wanting to step on any toes, or put too many cooks in the kitchen I deleted my post.

To summarize, I felt the ignition switch was the faulty part, and gave directions on testing it, using a voltmeter or a test light.
I will be glad to re-post if asked.

Roger Carter

No it just means that the points are open and both sides of the coil are at the same potential. 1.9 ohms is about right for a coil.

Take off the distributor cap and rotor. Bump the motor over until the points are closed. The plastic tab on the points should be on a flat not a point.
Now the coil is grounded if the points are good and should have about 9 volts across it.
Also confirm the measurements from the battery ground. not just across the coil.
Tech