Slick 60's

I am getting ready to do a tranny swap and want to be sure there not something I am missing..

I am removing a t-18 and installing a cast iron 3+1..

I'm hoping the bell does not need to be removed. I think I should be able to just remove the butterfly bolts, carefully remove the t-18 and slide the SMOD into place..

Is there any reason the throw out bearing will not slide off easy??
I plan to remove the clutch rod just incase the cluth pedal gets bumped. I wouldn't want the clutch to fall off center..

i dont see any problem although i am not sure what you mean by butterfly bolts.

the old trans (once the 4 mounting bolts are removed) will slide right out and the throwout bearing should stay on the fork. the new trans if it has the same spline will fit right back in then.

jwh f-100 wrote:I am getting ready to do a tranny swap and want to be sure there not something I am missing..

I am removing a t-18 and installing a cast iron 3+1..

I'm hoping the bell does not need to be removed. I think I should be able to just remove the butterfly bolts, carefully remove the t-18 and slide the SMOD into place..

Is there any reason the throw out bearing will not slide off easy??
I plan to remove the clutch rod just incase the cluth pedal gets bumped. I wouldn't want the clutch to fall off center..

I am not sure what you are swapping into but it will fit fine on most 65 and newer but F350 and 4X4 have a longer input shaft on the trans so it won't swap there. The 64 and older seem to be totally different from what I have seen but I haven't seen it all! LOL Hawkrod

I'd get some studs and put them in the bell housing.
It helps support the transmission while you line up the input shaft.
Use thread locker where they go in the bell housing and regular nuts and lock washers on the outside.
U@ss

Thanks guys!!! Im sure everthing will bolt up, mainly was concerened with the throwout bearing staying in place..

Ice, I'm calling the mounting bolts "butterfly bolts"

Hawk, Currently It is a '68 302 with a early 70s t-18...

Skip, Good thought on the studs.. I had not paid attention to know if they were bolts or studs with nuts. I see my spare bell has threaded holes. Regardlees of what the truck has I'm gonna use studs as you mentioned, I bet that would be helpful.. I may even make up a couple long allignment studs...

Yeah, I may even make four, long suckers. As long as the spline and pilot. Will be a big help..

One word of caution on using studs in the bellhousing, make sure the transmission is seated against the bellhousing before tightening the nuts and lockwashers. Don't try to pull the transmission down to the bell with the nuts.

Jason,

Are the T-18 transmission and the 3+1 Cast-Iron transmission the same length bell to yoke?
The reason I ask is I'm wondering if you'll be able to use the same driveshaft or not....

Will you be able to re-use / relocate the T-18 transmission crossmember mount or will you need to use/build a different crossmember?

Will the speedometer cable from the T-18 have the same attaching end and cable length or will you need to change the cable to the 3+1?

I assume your 3+1 trans is a TOD (Top mounted Over Drive) unit, will the shifter come through the floor at the same location as the T-18 or close?
I'm sure you don't want it toward the dash or seat too much....

Just wondering out loud,
BarnieTrk

BarnieTrk wrote:Jason,

Are the T-18 transmission and the 3+1 Cast-Iron transmission the same length bell to yoke? No, The OD is longer.
The reason I ask is I'm wondering if you'll be able to use the same driveshaft or not.... I could, would need to shorten the front shaft and change to a slip yoke, but I'm going to a one-piece.. The carrier bearing support is a POS flat chunk of steel the PO installed that I want to see go away.. I'm using the shaft out of a '86 f150. It will need to be shortened.

Will you be able to re-use / relocate the T-18 transmission crossmember mount or will you need to use/build a different crossmember? The crossmember was fabricated but I will be reusing it, and probably will need to move it.. The mount on the T-18 will bolt to the OD trans

Will the speedometer cable from the T-18 have the same attaching end and cable length or will you need to change the cable to the 3+1? Right know my truck has no cable, but to answer your question, I think so.. At first I thought I'd need to get a cable but when talking with ICE on chat Sunday I realized I have the correct cable, I just needed to switch the plastic gear..
I assume your 3+1 trans is a TOD (Top mounted Over Drive) unit, will the shifter come through the floor at the same location as the T-18 or close? It is a SMOD (pic below), and the shifter will be back from the t-18 but should clear the seat fine.. A TOD and a t-18 may be fairly close.. If you are considering a change on the truck you got from Bob I'd only consider a t-19..
I'm sure you don't want it toward the dash or seat too much....

Just wondering out loud,
BarnieTrk

jwh f-100 wrote:

BarnieTrk wrote:Jason,

I assume your 3+1 trans is a TOD (Top mounted Over Drive) unit, will the shifter come through the floor at the same location as the T-18 or close? It is a SMOD (pic below), and the shifter will be back from the t-18 but should clear the seat fine.. A TOD and a t-18 may be fairly close.. If you are considering a change on the truck you got from Bob, I'd only consider a t-19...

Just wondering out loud,
BarnieTrk

-- Why only a T-19?

-- What don't you like about the T-18?

-- Aren't the T-18 and T-19 pretty much the same transmission other than the non-synchronized 1st (creeper) gear?

BarnieTrk

I'm not a tranny expert by any stretch of the imagination, and my memories of the 60's is shadowy and full of holes so if there's someone out there who knows more about this, please jump in, but: That looks like the old ford (car mostly) top-loader 4 spd. They were called top-loader because the gears were all "loaded" through the top. I'm sure if you run the numbers from that trans you'll find it's just a 4 spd, not a 3+1 overdrive. If it IS a top-loader 4 spd, it's worth a fair chunk of change if it's in good shape. A lot of people think that tranny can't be a top-loader because the shifter is on the side of the tailshaft, that's been the reason it's been mis-identified since Ford started using it in the early 60's. If you're looking for a 4spd tranny that'll handle a beefed up small block engine in your pickup, this tranny may be just what you need. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a 3spd plus overdrive so your truck will cruise at a lower RPM on the highway; making your truck more drivable because the engine isn't screaming for another gear and getting you better MPG, I don't believe this is the right one. I really hope someone will chime in here and straighten me out, and I have no prob if someone points out something I don't know (or very possibly a little tell-tale something that'll make me slap my forehead and say "Oh S^*t, how could I forget that?").

This is just my opinion, I could be (and have many times been)totally wrong.............................

64FordSWB,
Here is the skinny on the truck manual tranmissions:

http://www.motivegear.com/tech_info/tra ... guide.html

If you go to the site at the link provided above, you will see what Jason says he has: the T170F (Code-RUG). A 3 speed + a 4th OverDrive gear. 3+1OD.

What I've got and will likely pull out is a: T170FT (Code-RTS) Very similar (in my eyes) to what Jason has.

If you look at the description provided for the T-18 and T-19, you'll see they are also very similar to each other, but VERY different from the T170 series transmissions.

-- I believe what you are thinking of are the CAR application 4spd Toploader transmissions with the HEH- or RUG- codes, as listed here: http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/idchart1.htm

BarnieTrk

BarnieTrk wrote: -- Why only a T-19?

-- What don't you like about the T-18?

-- Aren't the T-18 and T-19 pretty much the same transmission other than the non-synchronized 1st (creeper) gear?

BarnieTrk

It would be my first chioce ( not only Oops) with the synchronized 1st gear.. A t-18 or a NP435 would both be good also.. My T-18 is fine but looking forward to trade my granny in for the OD...

Here is a thought If you are thinking about a change. Keep your front shaft, that Bob had made with the TOD incase you ever want to reuse the TOD.. Grab a second shaft to have modified for your new trans...

Jason,
I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'll reply to your suggestion:

One of the reasons I bought the '65 F-250 from Bob was because my hauling chores were getting larger and to the point where I was afraid I might hurt my F-100 9" rear end. I debated over Summer, and I came to the conclusion this Fall that to loose the weak link and to get the most useful work out of the '65 F-250 and before I hurt the TOD transmission, it would be a smart move for me to change it out and install my T-18 that is currently in my '65 F-100.

Don't get me wrong -- the TOD that Bob installed in the F-250 seems to be a good trans for what it was intended for - and that was commuting and some light hauling. But the TOD 3+1OD trans has been turned out to be too wimpy for me to be comfortable with it.

So, I AM planning to do a transmission transplant / swap between the two trucks. I'm anticipating that I'll likely end up having to cut down a shaft or have a custom driveshaft built for each of the trucks since the F-250 has a two-section driveshaft with a center support (carrier) bearing and the F-100 just has a single driveshaft. No, I won't toss the driveshafts I take out, I'll hang onto them until I can find a home for them.

So between now and then, I'll be saving up $$ for a couple of fresh throwout bearings, pressure plates and clutch discs and hopefully only a quick inspection and scuffing of the flywheels and then both trucks will be in recovery.

Yeah, the 4.10 gears that are in the DANA 60 rear end behind the T-18 will NOT provide nearly the same mpg, but I won't have to ride the clutch trying to back a loaded trailer up a hill either. 'nuff said....
Sorry to rattle on, Jason.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled thread posts...

BarnieTrk

A few tips I can offer from doing this before. You may want to pop out the seat if possible. pull out the "shifter hump" I got a taller one from a 4wd truck. Bolts right in. I did not have an engine hoist, so I used some chain and 4"x4"s to jack and get in into position. A hoist would have been easier.

I only had to modify the short section of the driveshaft. And I used a yoke from a C4 the longest I could find. I did have to slide my crossmember to a new position. I also had to remove my front/mid crossmember to remove the C6 but you should not have to do that.

you may also need a new or different Z bar for you clutch. there are about 6 different setups.

A t19 and some 2.75 or 3.00 gears would make a nice daily driver weekend hauler also.

I'm looking for one now but I'm only finding T18's , so my new project may get an SROD.

My old TOD had a pretty low fist 3.37?:1 so going to a T19 4.00:1 is not much of a gain in gearing, but the strength upped.


bob

BarnieTrk wrote:Jason,
I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'll reply to your suggestion:

Your not, Its all good info..
It sounds like you have a good plan.. With two trucks it makes sense to have a nice OD in your f100 and the T-18 in the F250..

Your t-18 must have a long tailshaft with a slip yoke????? You asked about the lengths. My two trannys are much different because my t-18 has a short tail and a fixed yoke... Highly unlikely but maybe your two are close in length.. If they are within a inch or so different slip yokes may do the trick for you...

Hey Bob, good to hear from you - I hope all is well with you and yours!

Thanks for the tips.
I've copied your comments and pasted them into my truck e-file for referencing when I get closer to turning wrenches on this swap.

Yep, I did the wooden beam lever thru the cab floor approach with my '63. Not fun.
With my '65 F100, I did the floor jack approach. Better, but still no fun.
This time I bought a transmission jack head that I can mount on my floor jack. Here it is:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... %2Bjack%2B

I hope it makes it go a little easier, because as you know, those T-18s are a bit heavy to wrestle around with under the truck!
I will also fab some long, sturdy aligning studs for this round of fun.....

BarnieTrk

jwh f-100 wrote: Your t-18 must have a long tailshaft with a slip yoke????? You asked about the lengths. My two trannys are much different because my t-18 has a short tail and a fixed yoke... Highly unlikely but maybe your two are close in length.. If they are within a inch or so different slip yokes may do the trick for you...

Hmmmm,,,,, excellent point!
Nahhh,,,, I am not that lucky!

Never the less, I'll have to check into that..... Thanks!

BarnieTrk

Lots of good info on this site so I visit often. All is well here, I do miss my truck. I had that jack here and could not get the trans under the truck with it attached. If you put it on ramps and stands think you;ll be good. Like I said I used a jack and lifted jammed some wood under it, tighten the chain, rinse and repeat. I just couldn't clear the rockers, and once I had it under the truck I couldn't get the trans/jack mount onto the jack.

I thought about buying an ATV' motorcycle jack for lifting it up, I did this in my driveway over two day's with less than 4hrs each day. It was a very easy swap. I was down for 4 day's while I waited for the driveshaft and while I was searching for the correct Z-bar.

You may be able to get the correct intermediate driveshaft from a factory setup, that had a 4spd. Just measure what you need and ask on the forums. I had one in line for this but I was impatient... and had mine made for $125.

Jason, just do it.....