Slick 60's

recommended? can anyone refer me someone from the tri-state area that can do it for cheap. i need it done. caster is horrible. or what would be the best way to fix my alignment.

FYI, you do not bend axles for caster. For caster adjustment on a straight axle, you install or remove caster shims between the axle & springs. On older twin i-beams (with king pins) you bend the radius arms.

You will bend a straight axle or twin i-beam for camber adjustments. I have done this many times both cold and with heat, but you cannot use too much heat or you may damage/ruin the axle or beam, whichever you are heating.

Jake

Ford Manual calls for cold bending.

All the big truck axle shops cold bend them.

Using Heat changes the temper and weekens them.

"All the big truck axle shops cold bend them."


I have aligned Ford twin I-beams and all size straight axles (all makes & models) both cold and with heat for over 25 years in two very well known alignment/frame shops. (small and big truck axle shops) Never had any problems using heat to get the correct camber and no i-beams/axles failed during that time.

If a twin i-beam cannot be aligned cold, the factory wants you to replace it. But, you may not be able to get the new i-beam cold bent into alignment, either. What do you do then?

What any car or truck manufacturer suggest as far as alignment specs and procedures, does not always work in the real world.

Jake

Dropped axles are heated cherry red then stretched to shape with no problem. It isn't the heat that does the damage, it's the too rapid cooling. Air cooling, even wrapping to slow the cooling, is the ticket.

I have bent many an axle to align them hot or cold does not matter. My sons 65 has been heated and bent to do the alignment after we lowered ner a problem

Bit

Think about this way they were heated to form them when built whats the difference as long as you do it rite

Bit

bit wrote:Think about this way they were heated to form them when built whats the difference as long as you do it rite

Bit

That is not a very good example because after they were heated to form them they were heat treated to make them safe. You are comparing oranges to apples in your example. It is not even remotely the same thing. I agree that done properly heat can be used but I also question how many average members have the skills. As far as broken ones, I have seen two come into my shop after lowering by "home" methods. Cold bending is always prefered but as noted may not always be possible. Hawkrod

azjake wrote:FYI, you do not bend axles for caster. For caster adjustment on a straight axle, you install or remove caster shims between the axle & springs. On older twin i-beams (with king pins) you bend the radius arms.

You will bend a straight axle or twin i-beam for camber adjustments. I have done this many times both cold and with heat, but you cannot use too much heat or you may damage/ruin the axle or beam, whichever you are heating.

Jake

You do bend twin I beam's for both caster and camber. Look in the shop manual, you do not bend the radius arms for adjustment. The radius arms are not designed to be bent. Camber is adjusted by bending the end of the axle up or down and caster is adjusted by bending the kingpin hole clockwise or counterclockwise and Ford had specific tools to do the job. Hawkrod

Hawkrod is correct, I thought I was pretty lucky to have found the complete set up to correctly bend the beams on ebay a couple years ago for a whopping 50.00 was 100.00 in shipping because of the weight but well worth it as it has paid for itself many times.

Hawkrod wrote:

azjake wrote:FYI, you do not bend axles for caster. For caster adjustment on a straight axle, you install or remove caster shims between the axle & springs. On older twin i-beams (with king pins) you bend the radius arms.

You will bend a straight axle or twin i-beam for camber adjustments. I have done this many times both cold and with heat, but you cannot use too much heat or you may damage/ruin the axle or beam, whichever you are heating.

Jake

You do bend twin I beam's for both caster and camber. Look in the shop manual, you do not bend the radius arms for adjustment. The radius arms are not designed to be bent. Camber is adjusted by bending the end of the axle up or down and caster is adjusted by bending the kingpin hole clockwise or counterclockwise and Ford had specific tools to do the job. Hawkrod

I always bent the radius arms for caster. Done at two different shops specializing in alignments, spring repair, brakes and truck frame straightening for 25 years. (not automotive shops that also performed alignments) I had no problems doing it this way.

You know, I figured out a way to align the J-Arms on the Honda Odyssey FL250. They were not designed to be bent either, but I had guys that raced Odysseys lined up for me to align theirs for them.

Jake

ok thanks alot guys. my springs got cut 2 1/2 coils and i was thinking that if i had my i-beams bent that would straight up my camber problem (the top of the tires are slanted in towards the truck). this is camber correct?

You are correct. That is the camber setting. Good luck in finding a good alignment shop to get your truck ready for the road!

Jake

matter of opine dalton needs to do what he feels comfortable with. when you cold roll and i beam you put a lot more presure on it versus heating the beam and i dont mean pouring cold water on it afterwards. cold will break before heating on the beams and I dont use the radius arms to get the caster because you cannot get much adjustment out of it without it looking bad you can heat the beam out at the curve near the spindle and get your camber and caster as you will most likely have more caster than you need once it is bent. I cannot control the abilities of each members talents here except to say if you are not comfortable doing this find a good frame shop in your area and pay them to do it for you as it should not run more than 150 bucks for the turn key job and your truck will come back driving correctly. most so called alignment shops dont have competent people with the knowledge or the proper equipment to both align and bend these beams

Bit

hawkrod what part of as long as it is done rite didnt you understand

Bit

thank you bit. i will check out some shops around here. you gave me the answer i needed

bit wrote:hawkrod what part of as long as it is done rite didnt you understand

Bit

What are you talking about? I am pretty sure I did not diasagree about doing it right but I did point out that your example is wrong as the manufacturing process has nothing to do with in service repair and how it is done. You talked obout the fact that they used heat to form them but the reason that example is so poor is becuase they are forged hot and the entire unit is carefully heated to a predertimined temperature before going to the hammer. After being formed they are then treated very specifically to eliminate possible failure. This process is very well controlled as opposed to in service repair. During repair there is no way to verify temperature and work hardening. You also can't control temper and elasticity. Working forged steel is an art that too many are not familiar with and localized heating can cause stress risers and failures ten years down the road. The problem is you probably will never know but I have seen two of them in my shop. This is why your example of how they are made and how they can be serviced is invalid and have nothing to do with each other. I don't disagree with doing it right, I just pointed out that your justification is wrong. From your post it was obvious that you are not familiar with the manufacturing process and what is involved and also not familiar with the metalurgy involved and how in field service is distinctly different than the original manufacturing process. You just can't compare the two. Hawkrod

I agree, the two are not really comparable as heating in an oven or by induction is much more precise and controllable than heating with a torch could ever possibly be. And without knowledge of the metallurgy of the axle and the type of heat treatment used in its manufacture, one could easily weaken it by applying too much heat, applying it unevenly, or losing control of the rate of cooling.

That being said, as R Pope posted, heating and bending of axles to acheive a drop is common practice, with the key being slow cooling to prevent localized hardening.

So I think the question is, are Twin-I axles comparable to the earlier beam axles in terms of metallurgy? Are they prone to work hardening? What did the post-forging heat treatment consist of? Simple annealing for stress relief, or something much more precise?

If the axles are simply mild steel then I would imagine one could achieve acceptable results with a carefully executed in-shop method, but if the axles are an alloy steel then things could be much more complicated...

The Big M wrote:I agree, the two are not really comparable as heating in an oven or by induction is much more precise and controllable than heating with a torch could ever possibly be. And without knowledge of the metallurgy of the axle and the type of heat treatment used in its manufacture, one could easily weaken it by applying too much heat, applying it unevenly, or losing control of the rate of cooling.

That being said, as R Pope posted, heating and bending of axles to acheive a drop is common practice, with the key being slow cooling to prevent localized hardening.

So I think the question is, are Twin-I axles comparable to the earlier beam axles in terms of metallurgy? Are they prone to work hardening? What did the post-forging heat treatment consist of? Simple annealing for stress relief, or something much more precise?

If the axles are simply mild steel then I would imagine one could achieve acceptable results with a carefully executed in-shop method, but if the axles are an alloy steel then things could be much more complicated...

Thank you. I was not disagreeing whether it could be done or not, my only point was that the analogy was a poor one that could easily be misinterpreted or taken as fact out of context. I can tell you that companies that bend axles do handle them very carefully as far as treating them. I do think the axles are probably a mild alloy and can handle a lot but my first choice would always be a cold bend as Ford specifically noted not to heat the axles in the service books and they would be the ones to know! Hawkrod