Heads for a 5.8/351 - Need advice

[PFM-64f100]

Well I did it now. I had a leaky exhaust manifold on the crew cab so I bought a set of gaskets for it. When I went to remove the bolts the first one was no problem came right out. Long story short I have 4 broken bolts stuck in my head now. I have tried several times to weld a nut to the bolt but the bolts are so brittle it breaks right off.

So I called up the machine shop and to redo the heads it $200 bucks not bad heck of a lot cheaper than a new one. The kicker is those broken bolts. The shop charges $30-50 per bolt for removable. Great I have 4 already and still haven't done the other side. Now the cost is close to the cheaper alum heads so I might as well spend a little more and get the performance heads instead of the stock ones.

The motor is a 95 - 5.8L - EFI - Roller engine - SBF. I have found two heads but since it has been so long I really need help in getting a decent head.

1st one if from ebay. it doesn't look bad and looks complete.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230706015012?ss ... 1423.l2649

2nd one I found is:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/flo-tek-s ... 46332.html

What are your thoughts on the above heads?

Do you know of any other options out there?

Looking for advice and information. I rather not have to buy a new set of rockers (roller), I would prefer to use the stock ones I have. I also don't want to buy new headers and would like to keep the existing manifolds. It not like this engine will be racing on the track.

[64 f100]

Used heads are out there for reasonable prices.. If your heads are stock, the the rockers you have will be the later style pedestal mounts. You don't mention a part number so I'm guessing you might have E7TE heads which I believe are on some Mustang 302 motors. I would check and see what heads you have and go from there. GT40 cast iron heads are a decent head if you can find a nice set. run anywhere from 200 on up for used depending on condition. Otherwise, depends on how much you want to spend. Speedway sells some god stuff but5 also low end pricing means perhaps not the best. Going to aluminum heads can add to other problems but since you most likely already have an aluminum radiator it most likely won't affect you much. Aluminum can create a PH problem in your engine, which means you should change your antifreeze more frequently, which most people don't do at all untill a water pump goes out. As to the bolts in the heads, you can drill and tap these yourself, but make it easier on yourself and pull the heads to do it. As to which heads, there are several good ones out there. Fords X302 heads are supposedly good. Also, when running aluminum heads, you can and should run higher compression ratio by about one point is my understanding. So chamber size is important. I would personally not run Procomp heads, as I've heard less than stellar comments on these. These are about the cheapest heads out there. Be aware that aluminum heads are good in some respects and not so in others. World products makes some cast heads but I don't know if they make these for the pedastal mount rockers. If, I were going for new performance heads, I would not go cheapest route, but who knows those may work fine. Personally, I would do a search tempest search for craigslist take offs where someone has installed aluminum heads on their engine.

Rich

[jamesdfo]

If you are just looking to find a set of production heads to replace yours, as Rich mentioned, the GT40 (used on Explorers) is one of the better flowing ford production castings. Having said that, if you are trying to pick up a few ponies, almost any of the aftermarket castings will outflow the production castings by a bunch.....all depends on what the end goal & budget are:)

James

[dotcentral]

Like James said, depending on what your after can make a difference in what you spend. Might ask your machinist and some other engine builders & machinists in the area if they have anything sitting around. I had a 302 rebuilt a few years back, told the machinist 225-250 hp was adequate for what I wanted. Mentioned that if my original heads needed too much work to not bother & I'd pick up a set of E7 heads. Turns out he had a set of E7s sitting around and sold them to me fairly cheap.

[twisted62]

hey guys i am fairly new around here and dont know how much merit my word will hold, but i am a high performance engine machinist and engine builder and thought i would through in my 2cents. as for the two heads you had links for i can't say i have ever heard of them but i do know pro comp and there another cheap cylinder head company that there stuff is made in china and there stuff is not very dependable out of the box they have alot of issues and use less then acceptable valves,springs, retainers,....etc. being on a budget like all of us i think you would be better off finding a set of used darts,ford racing,trick flow....etc there are alot good used heads out there.

As for swappping to cast iron gt40p head from explorers just be warned that they have a different spark plug angle to clear the funky exhuast manifolds on explorers. so just make sure your headers or manifolds clear the plugs before you buy them. another option is gt40 heads from 93 to 95 ford first gen lightning pickups they have the standard plug location and angle.

thanks matt.

[jamesdfo]

Matt: thanks for the heads-up on the plug deal, wasn't aware of that! As for lightning heads, they won't be falling out of trees:)
I can't speak for the RHS heads for SBF, but a friend purchased two sets of the SBC version for circle track engines, and not only did they flow well, they ran them @ 7800rpm two seasons before even looking at them, so the springs, etc couldn't have been too bad. And yah, I seem to recall reading somewhere else that the procomps are a big gamble, casting porosities, shit springs, etc....

James

[Toyz]

Can't beat the World Products IMO for performance, but they are a little pricey. I seem to be one of the minority who has had good luck with ProComps based on on-line comments,, but for general street use, I'd go with the GT40s (three bar markings), either ferrous or aluminum. They are widely available at reasonable pricing (Skip actually found me a freshened set recently for around $200.00). I would not be surprised if the eBay and Speedway ones were from the same Chinese "factory" as the ProComps. They are usually listed as "plug' n play" for the flat tappet motors, but the eBay listing states they are suitable for the Ford Motorsports cams. The E7s are decent heads, but usually in the same price range as the GT40's.
I'll check around town next week if you're interested in GT40's; (or E7's). If a bargain shows up, I could bring them to either Ft. Worth swap meet. If they were not something you wanted, no problem; I like bargain parts , and could put them to use!
Paul

[64 f100]

I'm glad someone mentioned athe GT40P heads and their shortcomings as far as swaping is concerned. Good heads but need more than just the heads to make these work. Somewhere, I think I have some C9 351w heads but these are not pedestal mount heads, so your rockers would not work. I agree on the GT40 heads being somewhat around the price of E7 heads,sometimes. Also, Lightnings weren't the only one that came with these heads. Some of the Lincoolns also had these. A few years ago, I sold and almost new set for 500$. Wish I hadn't sold those at all.

Rich

[Brian Taylor]

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/pts/2883321218.html

[fire truck]

A lil info on explorer heads...

The 96-97 heads are GT40 with regular spark plug angle.
98-01 have GT40p heads with the different plug angle, the biggest issue I have heard from people that actually own them is having to remove your headers to change plugs. I have had no issues with these heads.

[TXSlick]

Is this a race vehicle? A good set of production heads can surely be found from a 5.0 for $100. Let THOSE GUYS pay for the expensive aluminum heads and you get a deal on their old ones. 351W heads and valves are same as 302 or 5.0 heads, after 1971, except you might have to drill out the head bolt size to 1/2". That is no big deal since the 7/16" holes are already there as a guide.

If your heads have the dogleg shaped water ports (72 and earlier) you will have to plug the bolt holes in the intake manifold so the water doesn't come through. 289 and 302 and 5.0 did not have that extra bolt.

[PFM-64f100]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and answers. I learned lots of thing that is for sure. I was able to pull the heads without any more bolts breaking on me. I think for the cost of a pair of used heads they can get my broken bolts out so I am going to take it to the machine shop today. Hopefully they wont find anything else wrong with the heads and if they do I will do a used set as suggested.

I did try one last time to remove those broken bolts but still no luck. since I couldn't get the head held in the right angle in my drill press I wasn't able to drill the old ones out. There are just somethings i will leave up to the experts.

[kstones63]

Chris,
Being that you said that you tried to weld a nut to the bolt, I assume that there is still some of the bolt sticking out of the head. I have had good luck with putting vise grips on the bolt, taking a fine tip torch and heating the head around the bolt. This is tricky because you have to get the head hot so it will expand away from the bolt and turn the bolt before the heat transfers into the bolt. If to much heat gets into the bolt, you will have to let it cool down and then try it again. Sometimes this doesn't work at all but I have had some luck with this in the past. My Dad is a retired diesel mechanic and he taught me this years ago.

Kevin

[TXSlick]

I have had good luck plug-welding a 1/4" washer to broken 5/16" bolts. Then weld a nut to the washer. It usually comes right out after all that heat.

The washer lets you get a real solid plug weld to a flush sheared bolt, and usually does not stick to the cast iron if careful. You need a real thick washer, not a cheapo hardware store washer.

[fire truck]

That's a good trick.

[Toyz]

Is this a race vehicle? A good set of production heads can surely be found from a 5.0 for $100. Let THOSE GUYS pay for the expensive aluminum heads and you get a deal on their old ones. 351W heads and valves are same as 302 or 5.0 heads HUH?, after 1971, except you might have to drill out the head bolt size to 1/2". That is no big deal since the 7/16" holes are already there as a guide.

If your heads have the dogleg shaped water ports (72 and earlier) you will have to plug the bolt holes in the intake manifold so the water doesn't come through. 289 and 302 and 5.0 did not have that extra bolt.

Strictly from my point of view; I would rather drill out a couple of broken studs than bore the fits for all headbolts and plug the bolt holes (unlikely on $100 heads). Especially since his original heads are probably just as good or better, from a performance standpoint, and are more likely to be of a known condition than a set of $100.00 take-offs. And this thought is coming from a guy with a Folvo, among other aberrations
Paul

[fire truck]

A wut? Mutt?

[TXSlick]

Hey! No argument on the head condition... !@! I was just trying to point out stuff that causes issues if you go to changing. And if you WERE going to change things, drilling out the head bolt holes is a ten minute job with a hand held drill and is no big deal.

If a guy doesn't know to look for the water port issues, they can wind up with a big mess on their hands. The head bolt size is pretty much a show stopper that keeps you out of trouble until you correct it, but the water ports can be overlooked and then cause problems after the fact.

[TXSlick]

Saw a set of E7 5.0 heads on Dallas Craigslist today for $74

[Greg D]

I'd also vote for the Explorer heads Chris.
You have a Pull Ur Own nearby?
Should be cheap enough there.