axle drilling

[unibody madness]

I am looking for a machine shop in northern California who is capable, and willing to redrill my rear axles to match my 5 on 4.5 front IFS.
A willingness to retire at the age of fourty with my hard earned dollars not a requirement.
Seriously, because of my proximity to Mare Island ship yard, folks are either to busy or want more than a new rear end type money just to redrill axles and drums.

Any personal knowledge would be appreciated.
Thanks
John

[Toyz]

John, there are several complications there. The access hole through the flange requires somewhat tight clearances, no big deal with CNC, but still a potential factor. The other is the neccessity of turning down the center boss to fit.
Aftermarket axles may prove more cost and time efficient.
Paul

[jamesdfo]

Saw these advertised in the back of a car magazine......haven't read the website blurb, not an endorsement, just a heads-up......

Drill Guides
http://www.rottenleonard.com/Menu.html


EDIT: DOH! Wonder if this has anything to do with the prices you were quoted?
http://www.rottenleonard.com/Frequently ... tions.html

[unibody madness]

Wow... Doh is right... never even concidered the access hole.

So my options are to
1) buy new axles,
2) switch to a 5 on 4.5 ford rear,
3) find someone who has switched the cordoba spindles to the dodge truck 5 on 5.5 spindles
4)find two 5 on 4.5 ford donors with the long side that will work, and get backing plates to match
5) adapters
6) carry two spares.

[LM14]

I've had 2 different sets done. I always take them brand new drums so I get the maximum life out of the work. I've never had a problem with the access holes being in the way on either set I had done. By using a new truck drum you get away from the center hole problem, unless you are planning to run stock passenger car wheels (who wants that?). I've never had a wheel fitment problem.

I use Quick Performance in Ames Iowa. They have done both sets for me and also built a few narrowed rearends and straightened/repaired some bent ones back when we circle track raced. They ship this stuff every day do if you can't find anything local, try giving Doug and the boys a call at QP.

Good luck,
SPark

[mercuryv8]

I've had 2 different sets done. I always take them brand new drums so I get the maximum life out of the work. I've never had a problem with the access holes being in the way on either set I had done. By using a new truck drum you get away from the center hole problem, unless you are planning to run stock passenger car wheels (who wants that?). I've never had a wheel fitment problem.

I use Quick Performance in Ames Iowa. They have done both sets for me and also built a few narrowed rearends and straightened/repaired some bent ones back when we circle track raced. They ship this stuff every day do if you can't find anything local, try giving Doug and the boys a call at QP.

Good luck,
SPark

Do they weld up the hole or put the new pattern beside it? I've seen both ways but don't know which is best.

Nic

[mercuryv8]

I also wondered about buying off the shelf galaxies or custom drums. They ran the 4.5 inch pattern and 11 inch drums. I don't know that they fit though.

Nic

[unibody madness]

All good info, keep it coming. I have a set of new drums and am planning on using cragar five spokes, so they should fit. Be nice to know if a stock off the shelf drum would work in the future.
I may have to ship but still hoping to find someone in northern California.

[Toyz]

The Cragars will probably fit; remember you will also need a big centered spare.
Paul

[LM14]

1 set they did they had to plug the hole. Makes it a pain in the a$$ to get the backing plate bolts back in. Slow going but it can be done with an end wrench. My other set cleared the hole just fine. The ones that cleared were on the '57 and the ones they pluged were on the '62.

What I found with trying to use off the shelf drums with the 4.5" bolt pattern was the center holes were different sizes. Also, nobody could guarantee me the offset was the same from hub flange to the back of the shoes. That's why I always get new drums drilled when I do it.

SPark

[Toyz]

There is some reluctance among machine shops to do such work, probably due to potential for liability on a street vehicle. I used to know what interchanged like the back of my hand, but that's no longer true. I believe the 11 x 2 big wagon applications from the late sixties were the correct fit, but I will have to research it. There are so many variables, even among the passenger cars; 5x5.5, 5x5, 5x4.5, "big" bearing, "small" bearing, 28 spline, 31 spline, etc. I will try to research it this weekend if none of our local members remember what fits and how. Re-drilling with either your existing drums, or new ones, is fairly easy if your particular axles have sufficient clearance to avoid the access hole; you still will have the future replacement as well as the correct spare application to deal with.
If you could stand the extra track width, an early eighties truck with the 5x4.5 9" rear and all components might be the most straight-forward way to proceed.
My answer for now is to remain un-matched, the spare issue will be Hagerty's problem in case of a flat. My problem is a 5x5.5 Fatman MII kit with a 5x4.25 mark VIII rear. I will probably end up changing both to the 4.5 pattern, eventually!
Paul

[mercuryv8]

There is some reluctance among machine shops to do such work, probably due to potential for liability on a street vehicle. I used to know what interchanged like the back of my hand, but that's no longer true. I believe the 11 x 2 big wagon applications from the late sixties were the correct fit, but I will have to research it. There are so many variables, even among the passenger cars; 5x5.5, 5x5, 5x4.5, "big" bearing, "small" bearing, 28 spline, 31 spline, etc. I will try to research it this weekend if none of our local members remember what fits and how. Re-drilling with either your existing drums, or new ones, is fairly easy if your particular axles have sufficient clearance to avoid the access hole; you still will have the future replacement as well as the correct spare application to deal with.
If you could stand the extra track width, an early eighties truck with the 5x4.5 9" rear and all components might be the most straight-forward way to proceed.
My answer for now is to remain un-matched, the spare issue will be Hagerty's problem in case of a flat. My problem is a 5x5.5 Fatman MII kit with a 5x4.25 mark VIII rear. I will probably end up changing both to the 4.5 pattern, eventually!
Paul

I was thinking about carrying two spares. Maybe a guy could carry a spare and adapter. I tried to look at pictures to see if they just use the regular studs. I think if they sit inside the adapter they do.


http://boltpattern.net/Ford_Bolt_Patterns.htm

This site is good. Shows the centre bore and offsets as well.

Nic

[simonscr]

http://boltpattern.net/Ford_Bolt_Patterns.htm

This site is good. Shows the centre bore and offsets as well.

That is a very cool chart! Could you explain the offsets on the chart? What do the letters mean, and what is the offset referring to?

[Toyz]

A helpful guide but not entirely accurate; there are some errors and generalizations. The offset letters refer to Low, Medium, and High, again not very accurate IMO. High offset would be what used to be referred to as "FWD offset", but has now become common on RWD applications also. Low offset would be the old conventional more-"centered on rim" spacing.
Paul

[ICEMAN6166]

There is some reluctance among machine shops to do such work, probably due to potential for liability on a street vehicle

long ago when i worked in machine shops and did such "government jobs" as they were called we gave a "bulletproof" warranty.
it meant you as the customer took responsibility for said job and if you came back to b!tch because it did not work out you would be biting the bullet- the business end of it.
never had any issues and we did some unusual stuff.
sadly nanny state regulations and lawyers have done away with most of this type work, unless you know a backwoods character who does not care as long as you pay and forget who he is upon picking up your goods.

[Toyz]

There is some reluctance among machine shops to do such work, probably due to potential for liability on a street vehicle. I used to know what interchanged like the back of my hand, but that's no longer true. I believe the 11 x 2 big wagon applications from the late sixties were the correct fit, but I will have to research it. There are so many variables, even among the passenger cars; 5x5.5, 5x5, 5x4.5, "big" bearing, "small" bearing, 28 spline, 31 spline, etc. I will try to research it this weekend if none of our local members remember what fits and how. Re-drilling with either your existing drums, or new ones, is fairly easy if your particular axles have sufficient clearance to avoid the access hole; you still will have the future replacement as well as the correct spare application to deal with.
If you could stand the extra track width, an early eighties truck with the 5x4.5 9" rear and all components might be the most straight-forward way to proceed.
My answer for now is to remain un-matched, the spare issue will be Hagerty's problem in case of a flat. My problem is a 5x5.5 Fatman MII kit with a 5x4.25 mark VIII rear. I will probably end up changing both to the 4.5 pattern, eventually!
Paul

I was thinking about carrying two spares. Maybe a guy could carry a spare and adapter. I tried to look at pictures to see if they just use the regular studs. I think if they sit inside the adapter they do.


http://boltpattern.net/Ford_Bolt_Patterns.htm

This site is good. Shows the centre bore and offsets as well.

Nic

The adapter will work on the rear, although the track is going to be affected. Finding someone to sell a single adapter might be somewhat hard. I wouldn't recommend use on the front since that will also have an effect on steering and braking.
Easiest solution is a multi-pattern spare; finding one to cover 5x 5.5 and 5x4.5 may be a challenge.
Paul

[Toyz]

In this age where manufacturers state that mechanics should never replace more than two studs on an axle, I would not consider anything involving welding and drilling the axle flange on a street vehicle. A race or off-road vehicle , where the possibility of failure might actually be considerably increased; no problem! This is simply due to the legal "presumption" that racers and off-roaders should be aware of the risks, including equipment failure.
Paul

[LM14]

Call Quick Performance, Doug will fix you up with no concerns. He does them every day.

This is not rocket science, it's been done for years. One set they did for me was screw in studs (on my '57), the other set was press in studs (on the uni).

The only problem I have ever had was 2 little issues.

1st I had a chip behind a stud and the stud didn't sit square with the face of the axle flange. Knocked the stud out, cleaned off the backside where the chip was and put the stud back in. Fixed.

The other time I had a little problem, one hole in the brake drum hung on the studs as you tried to put the drum on. 15 seconds with a die grinder and a little enlarging on 1 hole on the tight side and the problem was gone. Drove that one several thousand miles before trading it and never had a problem.

Don't think you will find a wheel with 5 on 4.5 and 5 on 5.5 anywhere to use as a spare. The really good billet wheel spacers will add 1.25" on each side if you use them.

SPark