302 or 351 ?

hotrodz&banjos · Post by **hotrodz&banjos** » April 18, 2010, 8:49 am

ok guys , my plan is to put a rebuilt motor in my 66 f100, it has a 302 in it now, but its in pretty sad shape, i would love to have a 351 in it , so my question is , will a 351 bolt up to the transmission that is currently bolted to the 302 ? or would i have to change transmissions in order to put a 351 in it ?

Michelle · Post by **Michelle** » April 18, 2010, 8:55 am

All the Ford small blocks have the same bell housing pattern except for 64 and earlier, so if you currently have a 302 the 351 will surely bolt up. The engine mounts should be the same too. It should be complete bolt in with no mods.

ABA · Post by **ABA** » April 18, 2010, 8:57 am

A 351 Windsor will bolt up.
A 351 Cleveland will NOT bolt up.

What tranny you got btw?

My answer may be wrong depending on the trans. Sure I'll be corrected if it is.
I know the 351W will bolt up to a C4 or an AOD and the 351W shares some other parts with the 302.

fseries · Post by **fseries** » April 18, 2010, 9:00 am

Which 351? Windsor, Cleveland or Modified. The Windsor will bolt up to your trans... Automatic or manual?? pretty sure you will need the correct flex plate for the 351. I don't know the specifics for a manual.

edselcomet · Post by **edselcomet** » April 18, 2010, 9:45 am

the 351 w is taller and wider . be sure to gather all the brackets and pulleys for the 351. your exhaust pipes will need to be modified at the manifolds also.best to start with a donor car or the small parts will nickle and dime you to death ,good swap otherwise.

64 f100 · Post by **64 f100** » April 18, 2010, 10:01 am

Some mistakes made by many people today. Cleveland will bolt up to a Windsor bellhousing. That being said, I will also quilify this with by saying in about 65 Ford changed their small block bellhousings from 5 bolt to 6 bolt if I remmember my numbers correctly. In addition many people are calling the modified 351M's Clevelands and these will not bolt up to a small block bellhousing of any kind. I would stay away from Clevelands and modifieds, if you are not conversant with these engines. The Cleveland is long in the tooth, and the modifieds ned special attention to take these from slugs to runners, and get any gas mileage out of these engines. 302's are cheap and 351's cost a little more but are worth it. The difference is ubelieveable untill you drive one. One suggestion, you don't have to buy a rebuilt engine, when a good used one with all brackets etc. can be found for reasonable prices. Carbed engines in pickupsand vans ran untill 85. A good HO motor fromt he early 80's runs well. You ccan buy a whole pickup or van for less than the price of a rebuild./ Just hunt around and find one iwth fairly low mileage, or a rebuilt engine. You can test drive it and know what you are gettiing. A rebuilt engine is going t o cost you 1200 to 1500 from a rebuilder. I've sen vans for 800$ complete. When you get done parting the van, hall it to scrapyard for a couple hundred back. You can do this for some elbow grease and 5 to 6 hundred.

Rich

hotrodz&banjos · Post by **hotrodz&banjos** » April 18, 2010, 10:11 am

wanna say thanx to all you guys and gals,your knowledge is unbelieveabe. this site and the great people on it is the only reason i turn the computer on. taking all the advice given, i'm gonna go with a 351.windsor. if anyone is close and wants a 302 to rebuild pm me in late june, thats when i'll be doin the switch. thanx again.

ebentraywick · Post by **ebentraywick** » April 18, 2010, 10:16 am

I whould find a donor car or truck that runs good but looks like crap. it will save u some money. tare the motor out and u can use some of the exaust from both rigs and eletrical..

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » April 18, 2010, 11:04 am

Another good source for 351's is those square LTDS from the 80s. They often were owned by old bedsh!tters who only drove them on sunny days . Then they croak and someone sells it in an estate action for next to nothing, and the motor only has 5000 miles on it. You can often get them for a song.

ABA · Post by **ABA** » April 18, 2010, 11:11 am

64 f100 wrote:Some mistakes made by many people today. Cleveland will bolt up to a Windsor bellhousing. That being said, I will also quilify this with by saying in about 65 Ford changed their small block bellhousings from 5 bolt to 6 bolt if I remmember my numbers correctly. In addition many people are calling the modified 351M's Clevelands and these will not bolt up to a small block bellhousing of any kind. I would stay away from Clevelands and modifieds, if you are not conversant with these engines. The Cleveland is long in the tooth, and the modifieds ned special attention to take these from slugs to runners, and get any gas mileage out of these engines. 302's are cheap and 351's cost a little more but are worth it. The difference is ubelieveable untill you drive one. One suggestion, you don't have to buy a rebuilt engine, when a good used one with all brackets etc. can be found for reasonable prices. Carbed engines in pickupsand vans ran untill 85. A good HO motor fromt he early 80's runs well. You ccan buy a whole pickup or van for less than the price of a rebuild./ Just hunt around and find one iwth fairly low mileage, or a rebuilt engine. You can test drive it and know what you are gettiing. A rebuilt engine is going t o cost you 1200 to 1500 from a rebuilder. I've sen vans for 800$ complete. When you get done parting the van, hall it to scrapyard for a couple hundred back. You can do this for some elbow grease and 5 to 6 hundred.

Rich

See, I told ya somebody would correct me.

I had a '72 SWB with a 351W AOD trans from a 83 Crown Vic police car that had Mustang shorty headers.....

Don't we just love all the different engine trans combos FORD blessed us with.

Hell if it was easy the Bowtie boys would be doing it.

Max · Post by **Max** » April 18, 2010, 12:28 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:... old bedsh!tters who only drove them on sunny days...

Now that was dad gum funny!

Michelle · Post by **Michelle** » April 18, 2010, 2:33 pm

ABA wrote:A 351 Windsor will bolt up.
A 351 Cleveland will NOT bolt up.

What tranny you got btw?

My answer may be wrong depending on the trans. Sure I'll be corrected if it is.
I know the 351W will bolt up to a C4 or an AOD and the 351W shares some other parts with the 302.

A 351 Cleveland will bolt up. The Cleveland has the same bell housing pattern as the other Ford small blocks. The 351M and the 400 have the same bell housing pattern as the 429, 460 and will not bolt up.

ABA · Post by **ABA** » April 18, 2010, 6:33 pm

Michelle wrote:
ABA wrote:A 351 Windsor will bolt up.
A 351 Cleveland will NOT bolt up.

What tranny you got btw?

My answer may be wrong depending on the trans. Sure I'll be corrected if it is.
I know the 351W will bolt up to a C4 or an AOD and the 351W shares some other parts with the 302.
A 351 Cleveland will bolt up. The Cleveland has the same bell housing pattern as the other Ford small blocks. The 351M and the 400 have the same bell housing pattern as the 429, 460 and will not bolt up.

I knew that. I was just testing everybody else.

Michelle · Post by **Michelle** » April 18, 2010, 7:25 pm

ABA wrote:
Michelle wrote:
ABA wrote:A 351 Windsor will bolt up.
A 351 Cleveland will NOT bolt up.

What tranny you got btw?

My answer may be wrong depending on the trans. Sure I'll be corrected if it is.
I know the 351W will bolt up to a C4 or an AOD and the 351W shares some other parts with the 302.
A 351 Cleveland will bolt up. The Cleveland has the same bell housing pattern as the other Ford small blocks. The 351M and the 400 have the same bell housing pattern as the 429, 460 and will not bolt up.
I knew that. I was just testing everybody else.

Now your sounding like me.

Hawkrod · Post by **Hawkrod** » April 18, 2010, 9:22 pm

And just to make this discussion more drawn out, it is true that the 351W and 351C have the same mounts and bolt patterns as 65 and newer small blocks (except for some cars built with older 260 and 289 engines like Sunbeam Tigers!) but the 400 comes in two flavors as well and one also uses the same trans bolt pattern as the 351W and 351C! Hawkrod

400 with small block bolt pattern:

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » April 19, 2010, 1:33 am

Hawkrod

I've heard of those but that is the 1st one I've seen. Thanks for showing us a picture of one. Where might one find one of those, I've got 3 early AOD's I would like to use one of them behind one of those.

ronk16 · Post by **ronk16** » April 19, 2010, 7:59 am

400 engines also came in the cleveland and modified forms.

The Big M · Post by **The Big M** » April 19, 2010, 11:09 am

Apart from the difference in bellhousing patterns that Hawkrod mentioned (never seen that before), a 400 is just a 400. It's not a "400M" or "400 Cleveland". The "M" is only used to differentiate the 351M from the 351W and 351C.
The fact that the 400 is technically referred to as a "small block" shows why the term is essentially meaningless in the Ford world.

As a side note, there are adaptors available to allow an AOD to bolt to a 351M/400. Pricey, but it can be done:

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Pricing.htm

ABA wrote:Don't we just love all the different engine trans combos FORD blessed us with. Hell if it was easy the Bowtie boys would be doing it.

If nothing else, it certainly allows us to learn something new every day!

kjvforme · Post by **kjvforme** » April 19, 2010, 12:05 pm

Wasn't it the 400 that was having all the head problems?