dropping a 460, OMG, help!

[460v8]

Bought my 66 F100 a few years back and now I'm ready to kick-it-up-a-notch. I've got a 460 at the shop that'll be bored 30 over and balanced. Then a rebuild. I already have the C6 with shift kit rebuilt and ready to go. That tired old six and manual 3 speed has held up well for me, but what have I got myself into? I know it's been done plenty of times before, but I'd appreciate everyone's advice. The 66 is stock everywhere else. What elese do I need? Disc brakes or new suspension, front and back? Replace the rearend? I have no idea what rear is in it now. Do I rewire? I know a 460 will fit, but what mods if any will I need to set the engine? Good thing I just rebuilt a 62 VW convertible for the wife, eh?

Thanks in advance, guys.

[BigTim]

A set of motor mounts for a 70s f-100/F-150 with a 460 should work. On the trans cross member you may have to fab up something if the one out of a 70s f-100/F-150 won't work.

If you have a 9 inch rear, and it should, I don't think you will have to change out anything else that is very major. Oh you will probably have to put in a correct length/strength drive shaft. If you have 28 spline axles, and I bet it does, if you ever hook up and nail it you may have to upgrade to 31 spline.

It may ride a bit low in front due to the extra weight, but a new set of springs will cure that if you want a stock ride height.

I'm just guessing here but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Truckrat]

From what I have seen, putting in a 460 in a 66 should be a walk in the park. There seems to be an issue with the oil pan on that swap, and you might need to put a rear sump pan on it. Means you would have to use the oil pump and pickup tube to work with it. Now, the best source I know for this information is Banjopicker. He has done it, and if he will chime in here, could point you in the right direction on the engine swap. Personally, I was interested in doing the same deal as yourself in my 65.
Just haven't gotten that far yet. As far as suspension, you should be good to go. I don't know how much difference there is in weight from a 240-300 I6 vs a 460, but I am betting the 460 is heavier. Find some front
coil springs from one that has an FE in it, or get a set out of a later truck in the 70s with a 460 in it. Should be the same up to 79. I am using a 74 chassis with power steering and disc brakes already on it. But I am putting a Flatbed on it, so the bed isn't an issue. Hope it all goes well.
TR

[460v8]

Thanks for the quick feedback. Starting to sound as if I can do this in stages and not all at once. Maybe drop the engine and trans, modify the drive shaft and I'm good to go with suspension as is? Then upgrade brakes and suspension as needed later? I'm worried about those front brakes. It's hard enough stopping the beast now with only the tired 6 cyl pushing it down the road. Do I need disc brakes or just better drums up front? What about wiring? Do I need a new harness or can I use what's already in place? Electrical is always kinda scary, but basically all it has are lights and a speedometer. I'm gonna pull the heater (I'm in souther cal, who needs it anyway) and maybe even the wiper motor and blades (rains 4 inches a year). Neither work all that well.

[cdherman]

In terms of electrical -- you should be able to use the same harness more or less. Depends on what your distributor choice will be (Duraspark II is good choice), in which case there are a couple "under the hood" wiring tweaks in terms of the location of the box.

In terms of alternator, AFAIK, you can use the same alternator and wiring. Ford kept that for years.

I would not stick a 460 in front of 28 spline rear axels (which is what you have). But I guess you can just wait till they snap.

You really ought to upgrade the brakes and put some heavier coil spings in it while you are at it. If you are lucky, you can find a junk yard that will get you the disk spindles, proportioning valve, dual chamber master, and VERY IMPORTANT here -- the offset linkage and brake booster for PS. The offset linkage is needed to clear the massive 460 -- puts the brake booster a little higher so that it clears. Ask the junk yard to throw in the coil springs -- you'll have them out of the 66 in the upgrade process and you can put the heavier ones in.

Good luck.....

[MadMaxetc]

460v8,

Where are you located? I have the stuff you need to do the disk brake swap, I will sell it cheep.

this is how I would do it...

• 1) Disk Brakes and MC swap. This should take only a weekend to do, all bolt in and minor pluming on the brakes. The parts from a 73-79 is what you would need, I would get new shoes, rotors, wheel bearings, and king pins, there are a lot of guys that have done this and even a tech artical
  Here and Here
  This would also be the time to swap in some V8 springs.

• 2) Swap In your 460 & C6. You MIGHT be able to run headers made for 73-79 trucks with the 460 Like these.

  A set of motor mounts for a 70s f-100/F-150 with a 460 should work. On the trans cross member you may have to fab up something if the one out of a 70s f-100/F-150 won't work.

  this is true.

  There seems to be an issue with the oil pan on that swap, and you might need to put a rear sump pan on it.

  This is somewhat true, the front sump pan will fit, BUT it will be a PITA to drain the oil, and under hard acceleration you don't want a front sump anyway. Just buy this one and save yourself a lot of fustration.
  You might need a new drive shaft. If the one you have is the right length (probly not) or is longer (most likely) than what you need, you can have it shortened and new U-Joints for fairly cheep. I would have it re-balanced for sure.
  Don't forget the gear on your speedo cable! you will have to see how far off you are and the figure out what gear you need. (Just post again and we will help with that.
  You will have to wire up the DSII, not hard at all. I would sugjest some relays. This is mine

• 3) Fix/upgrade your rear end when/if you blow it up. I would just check the fluid and make sure the brakes are up to snuff.

I would do them this way to make sure that you are SAFE FIRST and FAST SECOND.

Hope this helps!

[Hoofbeat Racer]

How is that for service? A new member joins and within 2 hours he already has some great answers pointing him in the right direction

Let me chime in here. First things first. Welcome to the club Mr 460v8. You have stumbled upon one of the classiest sites on the internet. This group of guys (and gals ) is an unlimited wealth of knowledge, friendship and encouragement. Our love for our Slicks brought us here but its the people that keep everyone coming back. This will be proven this weekend in Pennsylvania at our bi-annual get together affectionately known as Slick Stock. (that I sadly can not attend).

As far as your truck goes, I too have a 66 with 460. Only drove it with the 352 so I cannot wait to finish it. My truck is sitting on a 76 F150 chassis that has been shortened 4" to accomadate the difference in wheelbase. I was originally leary of this but a welding shop that specializes in building log trucks did the splatter for me. I went this route because:

1- I already had the frame with engine, C6, 31 spline 9"
2- comes with disk brakes, very important
3- simple body swap, cab and rad support bolt right up.

As far as engine mods, the sky is the limit with a 460. Build a solid bottom end and get your compression back up where it belongs in that 10:1 area and the top end goodies can come later. Definately do the brakes.

Hope this all helps and keep us posted

Mark

[FORDBOYpete]

Hey 460V8, Welcome aboard the Board!

I run a DIVE 460 CID 385 series engine with a modified C5 A/T tranny into a 31 spline 9" 4 pinion FoMoCo rear axle. it's in a 66 SWB Styleside CC with built suspension and stuff like that.

It sits on OEM truck mounts from 77 F-250. They consist of frame stands engine brackets and rubber insulators. 460s were available in 76 & later thru 1979 F-250 & F-350 only. Those are engine mounts you want. They cross bolt so if you shred the rubber insulators, engine will NOT roll over in engine bay. Sorry, no F-100/150 or 4X4s 460s were ever built OEM.

You'll need a truck pan where oil drains at rear of front sump, not at side like a P-cars do. OR you can add a rear drain plug in the back of sump as I do. If you don't, then your drain plug ends up over engine X Member. It makes for sloppy oil changes & a big wet mess too.

I ran headers & later medium rise intake, but found relatively OEM stock 460s which make 450 -475 HP with a little tweaking, need back pressure rather than free flow exhaust. They like low rise intakes with 780 CFM or so also. It is 7.5L of displacement . That's a lot of atmosphere to keep moving so Balance & efficiencies are more critical than huge sizes or radical equipment.

I also went back to the OEM cast Iron from the Headers, if you do it you need a truck style, passenger side, manifold,. Passenger car manifolds work on driver side, but R/H (pass side) definitely takes a truck manifold because the others interfere with chassis frame rail near reinforcement bar at radius arm rear bracket location, under where torque converter will end up being.

Add a recapture & recirculating coolant set up because 460s like to burp coolant on shut down. The recapture set up works best IMHO. I also run a 7 blade St. Steel Flex fan & Duraspark II Blue Band Ign.

Only get mid 12s @ incredi' TE's over 120+ consistently.

I will think of more later probably but there are a few iof us here with this drive train combo, or similar 385 series combos. . . .

Mean time like I said Welcome to our Slick 60s site


FBp

[Hoofbeat Racer]

[ 460s were available in 76 & later thru 1979 F-250 & F-350 only.


FBp

My '76 was F15JRA76605. I believe that is a 460 equipped F150 built in San Jose. It is a two wheel drive truck. As far as a know, that was an original engine. Correct me if I am wrong

Mark

[BigTim]

[ 460s were available in 76 & later thru 1979 F-250 & F-350 only.


FBp

My '76 was F15JRA76605. I believe that is a 460 equipped F150 built in San Jose. It is a two wheel drive truck. As far as a know, that was an original engine. Correct me if I am wrong

Mark

You are correct in that Ford built plenty of F150s with 460s in the 70s. I have a 78 F150 that came OEM with a 460. A good friend of mine had a 76 F100/150 with a OEM 460. Another friend had a 79 F150, OEM 460, remeber the black and silver official pace trucks.

[FORDBOYpete]

You're correct. . . .

They did build 460s from 76-79 (with engine mts that work in 65-79 type chassis [80 up = different]) only. They came in F-150-250 & 350,with 4X2 & 6&4, which were all LWB chassis. No SWB F-100/150s and NO 4X4s, in any configuration until the 80s 4X4s.

I apologize for not paying attention & catching my error when I wrote it. . . . again

FBp [/i]

[460v8]

wow...head spinning...dizzy from all the information

Thanks all, I knew I could count on your help!

I'm heading to the speed shop tonight. I originally bought the engine and trans last fall for a winter rebuild project. But, when I got the engine home and started the tear-down, I found a blown #1 piston and a locked engine. Took it back to he speed shop and the owner was very angry (he tore the engine apart and found a hole the size of an orange in same cylinder!!!). Someone told him it was a running engine on the trade-in. Anyway, the owner has been in the area for 25 years and is very well known. Good guy. He's going to replace the core, bore it 30 over and balance it. Then let me use his shop and tools so I can do the rebuild. Can you believe it? I've had the C6 rebuilt and found it had a shift kit already installed. At least that went well.

I really appreciate everyone's input. I haven't built an engine since HS shop (34 years ago), but ain't it about time! I'll be back on the forums soon.

Thanks

[William-in-St. George]

Just completed mine and love it! Short list of stuff you will need for a 100% bolt in deal. E-bay has the engine mounts usually for less than 100 bucks. Get all six pieces and the long bolts (4). Rear transmission mount and cross member will fit. Exhaust manifolds from a Van or truck with 460. Oil pan from a Van or truck and you will need the oil pump, pickup and special main bolt with the small bolt for the pickup support. Bigger radiator stock 352/390 will be fine. Big fan 5 or 6 blade on a clutch. Alternator and all wiring is the same. Harness may have minor differences because you had a six? Not sure. I use GM alternators with Ford pullies 3/8th inch belt. Stock accelerator cable will work but I use Lokar accelerator and kick down. Your accelerator cable will be too long. Fuel pump/fuel line/oil filter are a bit snug. I think the offset oil filter mount would be helpful. Shorten the drive shaft and replace the yoke. Transmission to cab floor clearance may be an issue if your transmission has the extra support webs just behind the bell. You can shim the cab mounts or do like I did and adjust the floor a bit with a BFH. Suspension, rear gear and the rest can be sorted out later. Late model starter with the solenoid on the starter makes for a clutter free installation. The shift arm on the transmission needs to be from a C6 truck (points straight ahead in neutral). I use stock shift linkage and neutral start switch. You can use the 2nd/3rd link on a manual shift column for now. Just remember if you are in neutral or park before you fire it. This is a real no BS stock 100% Ford parts installation. So friggen easy I wish I'd done mine years ago.

[PFM-64f100]

Ok I know that my 64 f100 is different from yours and that the mounts will be completly different, but a couple of things to check for. I bought a unerversale cross members made for my pickup and the 460 engine. I didn't think twice about the strength of that crossmember. I was having a problem with motor mounts falling apart on me (left side mainly). After the first set of mount were replaced I chained down the driver side of the motor (I think the damage was already done at that point just couldn't see it). This time just 4 months later I decided to pull the eninge to find out what's going on after another set was blown. Take a look at pics below they will tell you every thing. It was the pipe that broke and not the welds. and yes there was just 1/4 in of a weld holding this thing together, good thing I didn't roll the engine. Just something to think about in your adventure.

The whole unit



The passenger failed side


The driver side which still looks good


And yes I plan on rebuilding this type of crossmemeber but with stronger metal and more bracing. Also will chain both sides of motor this time. Does anyone have a suggestion for a 64 crossmemeber system?

[FORDBOYpete]

You aren't gonna want to hear my opinion on this subject, but I will state it anyhow.
If I still had my 63 SWB Integral Bed F-100 & had learned & knew what I know now, I would place the unitized integral bed body on the later 65 - 79 style frame/ chassis before I wound try to adapt the 57-64 style to take the output of even a "box stock" 385 series engine.
I had the same sort of problem with engine miunt degradation & failure running the 427 FE in my 63 as "PFM64 F-100" has with the 460 in his.
If one looks at how substantial the later 65& later engine X member/ mount set ups are compared to "pipe & bracket" aftermarket x members, it is easy to see (IMHO) the aftermarket deal is under-engineered. FWIW the 460s from the early days, thru 71 anywey, made 520 lb/ft at the flywheel & a conservative 385 rated BHP which should read 425-435HP.

the other factor that worried me is lightness of the cross dimensional design of the 4 leaf spring chassis the 57-64s sit on. The biggest thing thay came with was the 292 Y block, and I believed or was convinced the rivets on the ends of my OEM X-members in the 63 ladder frame were working & loosening from the abuse of the 427 FE. Maybe I was just paranoid back then, but U had a "Blow Tie" launch a flywheel & clutch on a 3rd to 4th gear power upshift and cut the left rail virtually in half. I could not steer or stop what was left of the vehicle. Engine dropped on the steering linkage, the left front wheel was mot commected to the other 3 wheels except fot the front frame horn, all stupid "newbie" mistakes, or under-estimations on my part. . . .

BIG POWER MAKES LIGHT FRAMES FLEX WAYS THEY'RE NOT MADE TO. We have to admit the aftermarket X-member is a "light Frame piece, huh?
SOoooo I will change the frames before I will ever run a 4 leaf single I beam under a HO package. . . . the mount vulnerablity is merely another reason I feel that way.
Just my $.02 on this critical/ dangerous problem. Also why I've a attitude against M2 (Pinto) front suspension conversions, too light duty for me. . .!

FBp

[castruck_1964]

Problem with pictured mount is the wall thickness of the tubing. the torque of the motor pulls on the weld flexing the thinwall tubing. Over time it work hardens and breaks as pictured. You could copy the unit make a stiffer one or purchase a stronger one from a company like Chassis engineering. They use different style mount but they use thick wall tubing with flat bar in center of the tube. no flex at all. Second chain is not nessary as this is a motor torque issue and does not occur on the otherside as it pushes down on that side.
Something to thinkabout
The true meaning of Universal is :
Fits nothing in the universe without modification

[PFM-64f100]

a cheap thin peace of junk. I do plan on copy/building a new one. I think I am going to use some scheduled 40 pipe I hope it would be strong enough. Also going to brace up the mount to the pipe. I learned my lessons on this but then again 7 years back I didn't have the room or equipment to build the proper cross memeber. Thanks for the advice.

[William-in-St. George]

One more thing to consider! I think I would add another bolt incrossmember between the engine support you plan to build and the rear transmission crossmenber. These ladder frames really flex a lot and that may also have contributed to the demise of your engine support? I think FBp's recommendation is a real solution to this and many other issues, like power steering, disk brakes and fuel tank placement. Food for thought!

[6166 Junkyard Dog]

Here is the correct story on 460's The first year put in a truck is 1973 F-250/350 Trucks, Then 1974 F-100/350 Trucks, Then 1975-1976 F-100 F-150/350 Trucks, then 1977-1979 F-150/350 Trucks,,, No 4x4 trucks with factory 460's but also vans starting to have 460's in them in 1975.... I have been using the same crossmember in a 56 truck with a 427 Stroker Motor that is pushing some real horsepower without failure but you have to remember that I purchased this part in 1974 when craftsmanship was on top of the list

[460v8]

Thanks again for all the feedback!

OK, 460 is bored/honed/balanced, and heads milled. Just finished painting everything Ford blue! Heading to the shop tomorrow to install crankshaft! I'll make sure to bring the camera.

My machinist, who is a great guy and is letting me use his shop and tools for the rebuild, says I need a Ford truck front sump oil pan. But, I think I need to go with madmexetc suggestion for a rear sump?? Is that right?

And madmaxetc, I am located in the San Diego area. So I may be contacting you in about that brake swap, but I'm no mechanic and this is my first rebuild so I'm a little skiddish on that one.