Heat Issues-Few questions Pics included

[ford4life]

Alright so a few of you know my dad and I picked up a 66 with a 429 in it, decently built. It had some wiring issues which we sorted out, but its still running pretty warm, and once it gets hot, when it is shut off it has a very hard time starting again.

It is very slow turning over, instead of a mm mm mm mm (mm's symbolize the engine turning over) its more of mm mmmm mmm, very slow.

Also once it is hot, the electronic fuel pump gets VERY loud as if there is no fuel in the line, but it does this after its been ran for several minutes, so I know I have fuel, and the pump works perfect just like the rest of the truck when cold.

My compression is dead on 140 on each cylinder. The previous owner said the engine was rebuilt about 3k ago...

My battery is 700 cold cranking amps, I know I should possibly put a 1000 one in there right?

I checked my starter, its a decent starter but is not one of the heat resistant ones.

We are thinking about trying a mechanical pump and re routing the gas lines back in front of the engine to see if this helps as vapor lock could be creating the issue?

I have dual cooling fans in front of the radiator that either come on at 160 or 180, I checked my thermostat and everything seems to be working correctly. I do not have a regular fan due to the space, but I think I could squeeze one in there if this would help a decent amount??

We have it down to

1. Starter
2. Battery
3. Timing
4. Vapor Lock issue regarding pump/carb/vacuum lines
5. carb running lean?

Any ideas? fires up perfect when cold, but as it gets warmer and is shut off it gets harder and harder to start, progressing to the point where it will turn over slowly but will not fire.

Here are a few pics of the carb and vacuum lines, neither of us are sure if they are running to the correct areas on the carb and manifold?

[ABA]

Just guessing here but wouldn't a weak battery cause the coil to produce a weak spark?

Had a 302 hot rod a couple years ago and if the super coil on it wasn't getting 12 volts it was very hard to start, very weak firing.

Not familiar with duel line carbs so can't help ya there.

[Brian Taylor]

The condition you described is usually the starter getting very hot from the exhaust and causing it not to operate correctly. Put a heat shield or wrap on the starter.
The electric pump may be cause of a poor or no return line causing the pump to work against too much head pressure, no releif.

[bird55]

Yea, what they said above,
but also this is just something I noticed, I'd flip that fuel line assembly 180 degrees toward the front then route your fuel line up toward the front of the engine. That's where they should be. Why? The Fan cools em better. Not sayin' it's THE problem but its a better way to help things along.

[ford4life]

Alright thanks for the help. Do the 429s put off ALOT of heat under the hood?

I just ran it got it nice and hot my temp gauge went almost all the way up to H, granted I do not know how accurate it is,, but then it was hard to start so I hooked it up to my ranger and jumped it and even with the heat it fired up...So I am thinking the battery could also be part of the problem..

but now I need to figure out why my engine is getting so hot. Or my gauge just sucks.

I have radiator fluid circulating throughout the engine but I am now wondering if my water pump is not adequate for this engine.

Any other thoughts? I appreciate all the help tremendously guys!

Garrett

[ronk16]

really should get a more accurate temp gauge to figure out the problem with engine temp. is the motor overheating? is your coolant up to snuff, old or over mixed with h2o, change it out. put a new battery in the truck and think about relocating it out back, heat kills batterys pretty quick. the fuel problem could also be that you are running a electric pump with out a bypass type regulator, pump is running and the carb bowls are full, no where for excess pressure to go so the pump will whine pretty loud, put a bypass regulator in line before the carb, bypass line goes back to your fuel tank like in a fuel injected engine. this will also keep the fuel cooler, since it will circulate back to the tank.

[ford4life]

Alright, I think thats where we are going to start is getting a better gauge in there...All fluids were just changed, less then 1 wk ago, coolant is full, and I am not sure if I am over heating or not?

It runs good when running, just gets HOT, and it starts back up if you try hard enough...just very slow to turn over, but it will fire eventually.. I do not think this is over heating? From what I have read people who overheat sputter and die and can NOT start back up until cold?

Thanks again guys.

[akfordman]

Hello, first off ,will talk about my truck. It 's a 65f100 s/b c6 9'' with a1971 460 from a lincoln. 71-460 had 10.5 to 1 compression, 370 hp. Your 429 if still stock, will have the same rating. Thats lot of cube. What need is the large battery to start. I run 900 amp+, bigger the better. Have your starter check,make sure it not draging when engine warm. I run a 160 thermosat. Your engine may run up to 180degree insummer. Perfit. If you don,t have amanule temp gauge, get one. You can keep your stock gauge hook up . Put the manule under the dash or under the hood. I have a stock 3row 352 radiator. Does great jod. I use a 7lbs cap. I did make aheat shill for the starter.There a picture of my old 65 in the album, by the way, it a Ranger. 429/460 are the same except for the stroke ,there great engine my will make 14/16mpg on runs and light the tires whenever you want. High compression Engines Need good battery and starter first. Good luck ...............akfordman

[*motor*mount*]

I don't know if this will help. I had almost the same problem and I got a bigger raidator. It runs cooler problem solved.

[slick4x4]

i had a similar problem with a 460...
new , extra big , battery cables & terminals
gave it a better attitude. my

[36truck]

Buy a newer 460 truck starter like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Ford ... ccessories

[ford4life]

So starter/battery combo sounds like the most likely fix. I guess in the meantime I will try to get a more accurate temp gauge on there, but from what I have been reading the 460/429 puts off alot of heat. And the engine is not 100% stock, I know before the previous owner had a blower on it and took if off when selling the truck...if that changes my situations at all?

I am thinking a bout doing that and going back to a mechanical gas pump.


Thanks for all the help

[sixty6]

Sounds to me like there a couple of issues at hand.

Starter: would wrap the starter with some heat shield as well as check the voltage drop to be sure the starter is getting 12 volts.

Temp: Need an accurate gauge to determine engine temp. From there you can start to narrow somethings down. If the engine is running warmer than desired I would check the t-stat, radiator, w/p, and be sure there are no air locks in the cooling system. A lean condition as well as timing can effect operating temps, but I would expect a mechanical issues with the cooling system before either of these.

Your electric fuel pump will quiet down greatly if you put a return line in there.

[ford4life]

I think today or tomorrow we are going to pull the water pump off and look at the cooling system more in depth to determine if that is playing a role in the heat...other people have said the timing could be off enough to keep it warmer then usual, so we will be checking that this weekend too I believe.

Thanks again to all who have helped, really appreciate the advise,

Garrett

[PFM-64f100]

Buy a newer 460 truck starter like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Ford ... ccessories

I agree with tom.. these little startes will spin that engine even when they are hot. I had a problem just like yours and the fix was the new starter. To much timing could also play a role in it but normally the above starter will fix the problem. My 460 never spun that fast on startup until I got the new starter.

["Whitey Ford"]

The way the fuel lines are tun is a little different. Put it in the front so they can get some fresh air when driving and sitting in traffic. I had a heat issue like that. I also put some rubber hose around the hard lines to keep it insulated.

Good luck....

[ford4life]

Alright guys got the water pump off today, seems sorta cheap. So I was wondering what you guys would recommend as a good water pump that can keep up with this engine?

And behind the water pump, what it screws into where my dipstick is, not sure what it is called, I found this



up on the right side. Looks like a small crack/chip, but my question is whether to worry about it as far as it affecting anything? It does not seem to be as the water pump is fully enclosed and all this area is just empty space.

Thanks for all help

-G

[BarnieTrk]

Is that your timing cover with a hole in the casting?
Is the area sealed off or can coolant get in through the hole and into the space?
If so, you may want to cut a small piece of aluminum sheeting and JB Weld it in to patch & seal the hole....

BarnieTrk

[ford4life]

Yes it is a hole. And the back of the water pump had a gasket plus a gasket w/ a backing that covered the entire back of it to keep the water contained just in the pump area..

Do you think this affects anything? Thanks

Recommendations for water pumps?