Well guys I have been throwing the idea of putting a manual transmission back into my 66 F100 again instead of the C4 I have in it now. Not sure why I want a manual again but I figured with the new 3.25 gears and a 5 speed, I will enjoy driving the truck daily again and on the freeway without screaming RPM's. I used to have a 3 speed on the column but pulled it all out for an automatic to make driving a little easier since it used to have manual brakes, steering and slopping shifting. It now has power steering but still needs power brakes (already upgraded to disc brakes and dual master cylinder). The only thing left in the truck still is the clutch pedal. The truck has a low mileage 351 Windsor with 5.0 Foxbody mustang headers and dual exhaust that exit in front of the rear wheels.
I am hoping that I can put some kind of 5 speed manual trans into this thing without having to change headers and rig up a whole lot besides a new flywheel and trans crossmember if the need be. I would like the trans to withstand pulling a small trailer with two motorcycles and handle 350-380 HP as well without burning up. It will be used for daily driving and not any racing or drag strips.
Does anyone here have any tips or info on what I should do here? It is just an idea for now and nothing set in stone. I figured I will make it a winter project if anything, but am not even sure what kind of 5 speed works...
I found a '95 Ford M5 trans for my '66 that fits my 351W. It's a Mazda trans that Ford calls a M5R1 and it uses a coaxial throwout bearing/clutch slave cylinder setup. I got the master cylinder with it. Mine was on a 300 six so I had to buy a new flywheel for the 351, $182.
If you find one, be sure it has the speedo drive gears in it, the one I have used a rear end sensor for the speedo, I had to look all over hell to find the gears and tail housing!
I haven't put it in the truck yet, but it looks like it will go under the original 4 speed hump. The shifter even looks like it will come up through the same hole. A new rear X member and some torch work on the original one will get it in there.
The hydraulic clutch cylinder will take a little fabbing to make it work. Haven't decided if it will be on the right or left of the brake cylinder, the '66 linkage is on the right (engine) side.
I bought a new throwout bearing/slave cylinder, don't want to have the old one crap out two days after it gets on the road!
If you want an overdrive and like the auto get an AOD.
The ones from 351W powered trucks and 5.0 Mustangs have more clutches in them so look for one of those. Lokar makes a TV cable for AOD swaps. It's also a pretty much bolt in replacement for the C4, same mount, same driveshaft yoke, same flexplate, etc.
1964 F 100 - I am going to do "something" with it.......
It's not an AOD I want, I just want a manual for some reason. It's a bit more fun, more simple and less maintenance (besides the clutch of course). What kind of car will I find an M5R2 out of and how good are they behind a street performance type 351W pushing just under 400HP?
Thanks for the help guys!
I think if you want a 5 speed manual, the M5R2 (aka M5OD) from a small block or a 300 I6 would be a good choice. Make sure it has low miles, however, as they are expensive to rebuild. The thing to watch for is the shift fork shaft seals at the top of the tranny are prone to leak. Most people re-seal those and they are good to go.
I bought a ZF 5 speed for my truck but I have to tow a 7000 lb trailer. I haven't installed it yet, either. A ZF that fits a small block (or 300 I6) is pretty hard to find but they are very strong. You still have to deal with a hydraulic clutch issues, like the M5R2.
Finally, I am going to disagree, with Dan and say that if you have a light truck and tow a light trailer, a World Class T5 (either in good condition or rebuilt) would be fine for what you describe. There are many, many options for fitment, and linkage is easy too. This is likely the cheapest and simplest option if you must have a 5-speed.
If you want even simpler and cheaper, put a 3.00 rear diff in your rear axle, and put an NP 435 4-speed in. Tough as hell, and granny for towing if needed. You could also put larger diameter tires on to slow the engine down.
It's all a lot of money and hassle for an engine that runs a bit fast on the freeway, huh?
My two cents.
Drew
66 F250 Frame swap, EFI 408W, ZF 5-speed swap (still!) in progress
63 Falcon Futura EFI 331W, T5, but not much progress... Slicks First!!!
Oops, my bad! I meant M5R2, the R1 is the lighter one in the vans and smaller trucks. Sorry.
Check the yards for an '88-up full size Ford pickup trans. Not sure when they changed to the electronic rear end driven speedo.
The more I look and the less I find on the M5R2 the less likely this swap is going to happen. I was hoping the T5 would work but looks like I would be pushing it. All the hydraulic stuff seems like it would be a pain as well and just adding another thing that can give problems or break.
I am not throwing this swap out the window quite yet, I am going to look into it for a couple more weeks first.
You also have to realize that you will not always be putting more than 300 ft/lbs through the transmission at once. A T5 can live just fine with an engine putting out 400+ ftlbs. The only time it may really stress it is when accelerating from a stand still and if you actually have the traction to put it to the ground. The Mustang people have proven that it can take it's share of abuse.
I think a T5 will do just fine for the light towing you're talking about.
I bet that if the torque capacity ratings for some of these other old reliable transmissions were found, we'd be quite surprised at how "light duty" they really are.
Does anyone know what the M5R2, toploader 4spd, our truck's 4spd and 3 spd, etc ratings actually are?
How about pulling a small 6 foot trailer with 100 gallons of water, a pressure washer and a few other pressure washing equipment pieces? Will it do fine pulling that?
He has a T5 from a 4cyl behind a stout Y-Block. He drives this truck all over the west coast with an 1900lb Alaskan camper. http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/T ... 9-6-1.aspx So far, no problems at all with the transmission. If a 4cyl T5 can stand up to that, then a V8 T5 should do it with no problem at all.
However, understand that this example is only one instance. There isn't really enough concrete evidence to say either way with absolute certainty. I would not hesitate to trust it to do what you are asking. I'm going to trust mine behind a turbocharged, stroked Y. Maybe I'm just foolish.
Some brief research indicates that the engines the M5r2 came behind did not exceed 275ftlbs in the trucks.
It looks like 330ftlbs is max in the Super Coupe.
Last edited by charliemccraney on November 4, 2010, 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
He has a T5 from a 4cyl behind a stout Y-Block. He drives this truck all over the west coast with an 1900lb Alaskan camper. http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/T ... 9-6-1.aspx So far, no problems at all with the transmission. If a 4cyl T5 can stand up to that, then a V8 T5 should do it with no problem at all.
However, understand that this example is only one instance. There isn't really enough concrete evidence to say either way with absolute certainty. I would not hesitate to trust it to do what you are asking. I'm going to trust mine behind a turbocharged, stroked Y. Maybe I'm just foolish.
Sorry, but your example and statement are misleading. You say "If a 4cyl T5 can stand up to that, then a V8 T5 should do it with no problem at all" but that really is not a valid statement unless you are talking about the old 4 cylinder trans. After the world class change the 4 cylinder trans was almost the same thing as the V8 trans. It was really only the early garbage trans that was light duty. In fact, the 86 turbo Mustang trans is virtually the same thing as the V8 trans except for the input shaft. The lower torque ratings don't come from weaker parts, they come from the gear ratio torque multiplication. I use the Tbird 4 cylinder trans for my Studebaker trans swap kit as it fits really well and is only rated a few pounds of torque under the V8 trans. Hawkrod
Hawkrod wrote:Sorry, but your example and statement are misleading. You say "If a 4cyl T5 can stand up to that, then a V8 T5 should do it with no problem at all" but that really...
Then that only further supports my opinion that the T5 will do fine. The parts do have something to do with the torque capacity. It's not as simple as gear ratios alone.
I'm not sure what year the T5 in that F100 came from. It does have a smaller pilot on the input shaft than the V8 transmissions. Aha I found it. He says it came out of a 1988 Turbo T-Bird.
Car transmissions have too high first gears for real truck use. Okay if it's just used for a car, but any hauling or towing will make you wish for a lower breakaway gear.
An option would be the Toploader 4-speed OD from a newer pickup. I drove one in my 351W Mustang for 60K hard miles then pulled it out and hooked it to a 460. Tough trans, but a little weird in the ratios, big 2-3 jump. A 351 can handle it though.
R Pope wrote:Car transmissions have too high first gears for real truck use. Okay if it's just used for a car, but any hauling or towing will make you wish for a lower breakaway gear.
Are not the our 3 speed trucks equipped with something like a 2.78 1st gear? Obviously not the best for towing, but good for a reference point. The particular T5 I have is 2.95 and some of the stronger units are 3.35. I've hauled about 1000 lbs several times, going up hills from a stop and everything and it did fine. I didn't wish for a shorter gear. I realize 1000 in the bed is a little different than, say 4000 on a trailer but for the intended use of the original poster, I think it will do just fine with a stock rear gear.
However, what I just noticed is that a 3.25 will be used in the rear. If a 3.35 T5 or shorter is used, it should be fine getting the load moving but it may actually end up too tall for the overdrive, with whichever overdrive transmission is chosen. With this in mind, I think a non overdrive truck 4spd is best unless a rear gear change is also planned. At least do the math with the overdrive to make sure it will put you in a reasonable RPM range. Right now, at 70mph, you're probably doing 2500-3000rpm which isn't bad.
If the 4cyl transmission I mentioned above is used, it will have somewhere around a 4.00 1st gear which should be excellent. It looks to be about the same as the M5r2.
Soooo....
Charlie and duece, I have been wanting to put the t-5 behind my rebuilt 292 in my short uni, and was wondering :
If you were to start with a fresh y-block stock rebuild (.60 over)
Were not into racing.
Just wanted the truck to perform better at highway speed.
Were somewhat economically concerned. (cheap)
Had a fresh 350 rear
How would you go about doing it, which t-5 would you get, where would you get it?
I have read so much on so many different sites that it gets a bit overwhelming for the novice
I have the correct bellhousing and had planned on using John Mummert to mod the bell.
