5.0 EFI/HO swap questions

[dotcentral]

Paul, thanks for the comments.

After sleeping on it, I will use a 10 or 12 gauge wire to run a separate wire to the blade connector. It is just a standard duty motorcraft starter, and like you said, probably could use a jumper. But I'm the type that would worry about it causing problems down the road. I will use black wire to make it less noticeable and use a couple of clamps to hold the wire and cable to the fender to prevent excessive movement.

Off topic, but any notice some discount auto part stores are only stocking black battery cables now? I guess it lets them cut back on inventory.

[dotcentral]

Finished getting the starter wired up today. Must have got it right, was able to bump the engine over using the key.

Next steps: Oil & filter change, bump the engine over to build some oil pressure, installing plug wires, install serpentine belt, and hopefully start it.

Other tasks: get some power steering lines hooked up, top off trans fluid, resolve shifter linkage hook up.

[randyr]

Finished getting the starter wired up today. Must have got it right, was able to bump the engine over using the key.

Next steps: Oil & filter change, bump the engine over to build some oil pressure, installing plug wires, install serpentine belt, and hopefully start it.

Other tasks: get some power steering lines hooked up, top off trans fluid, resolve shifter linkage hook up.

Yay!! That's encouraging!! After all this planning I'm hoping to start my engine swap in a couple of weeks.

[dotcentral]

Well, a couple of snags. AOD related stuff.

I am leaking trans fluid at the bellhousing. I have never separated the trans from the engine, but I am guessing the seal around that shaft between torque converter and the transmission is bad. Anyone got an idea of how hard these are to replace? I am assuming the trans will have to be dropped to fix it.

Trans linkage is proving a bit harder to solve than I expected. I have a new idea, will post my solution if it works.

[BlueGhost]

Well, a couple of snags. AOD related stuff.

I am leaking trans fluid at the bellhousing. I have never separated the trans from the engine, but I am guessing the seal around that shaft between torque converter and the transmission is bad. Anyone got an idea of how hard these are to replace? I am assuming the trans will have to be dropped to fix it.

Trans linkage is proving a bit harder to solve than I expected. I have a new idea, will post my solution if it works.

Was you donor AOD from a column sift for a floor shift vehicle?

It my understanding that AOD's from trucks and Crown Vics have a longer arm on the transmission than those that are cable/floor sift cars like mustangs.

I have a late 70's F100 column mated to my AOD. My AOD came from a Mustang and I had the same sort of linkage problems.

Here is a picture of the AOD's arm versus the arm that on my C6 that worked with the column.



I ended up using the Lokar column adapter linked to earlier in this thread.





I think you could get the same result from swapping the arm on your shifter to one from a F150 or Crown Vic.

[dotcentral]

My AOD was from a floor shift car, a T-Bird. I bought the lokar kit and also made my own arm to try and bolt on. However, it appears on my truck that the bellcrank (or whatever that piece is called that sticks out of the transmission) needs to be longer, not the arm itself. I am going to try and fab something up, as I think if I space the shifter rod farther away from the trans, maybe an inch or so away from the side of the trans, moving towards the driver side door, then it may work better.

[randyr]

My AOD was from a floor shift car, a T-Bird. I bought the lokar kit and also made my own arm to try and bolt on. However, it appears on my truck that the bellcrank (or whatever that piece is called that sticks out of the transmission) needs to be longer, not the arm itself. I am going to try and fab something up, as I think if I space the shifter rod farther away from the trans, maybe an inch or so away from the side of the trans, moving towards the driver side door, then it may work better.

Yeah, spacing it out from the trans should help. As we've discussed elsewhere, I made a little extension bracket out of a piece of 1" u-channel to kinda simulate the shifter lever on the side of my cruiseomatic trans. Of course, it's still in development and untested but here are some of the pics again for you to reference if you want....



This ones kinda blurry and I need to fab a way to better secure it to the AOD lever but for now it's just bolted on with one bolt:


In my extremely non-scientific test on my garage floor, holding the attached shift rod at a similar angle as the one in my truck, it seems to click thru the gears pretty easily. We'll see when I get it in the truck....



Hope that helps a little! Sorry about your trans leak. I suspect you will have to separate it from the engine. Replacing that seal is pretty easy once you get the trans out.

[dotcentral]

Yeah, spacing it out from the trans should help. As we've discussed elsewhere, I made a little extension bracket out of a piece of 1" u-channel to kinda simulate the shifter lever on the side of my cruiseomatic trans. Of course, it's still in development and untested but here are some of the pics again for you to reference if you want.....

I made a extension patterned after yours, using 3/4" square channel cut into a similar shape with holes drilled at various places to let me try a 4" spacing and a 3" spacing. My current shift rods are different than yours and both have bends that takes up the 3-4" length so this particular extension did not work with either of my current shifter rods. I am going to look for a straight shifter rod to retry my home-made extension, and a spacer of some sort to use with my collection of bent shifter rods to position the shifter rod farther away from the side of the trans. Hopefully one or the other solution will work acceptably. I want to eventually run an underdash A/C, so I need to avoid the floor shifter.

Hope that helps a little! Sorry about your trans leak. I suspect you will have to separate it from the engine. Replacing that seal is pretty easy once you get the trans out.

That's what I figured. I will have to dig out an AOD book I have around here somewhere and find the procedure. Want to get the engine started first.

[dotcentral]

my understanding that AOD's from trucks and Crown Vics have a longer arm on the transmission than those that are cable/floor sift cars like mustangs.

Here is a picture of the AOD's arm versus the arm that on my C6 that worked with the column.

I ended up using the Lokar column adapter linked to earlier in this thread.



I think you could get the same result from swapping the arm on your shifter to one from a F150 or Crown Vic.

I tried the Lokar kit today, with out the Lokar "arm" and it works except I can't hit Low gear. So the thing to do is going to be use the entire Lokar kit. I think the Lokar shift rod works where the bent rod I was using was not providing the force in the correct direction. I will need to drop the AOD anyway to fix the front seal, so I will swap to the Lokar arm at that time.

Got my oil primed with a remote starter, then realized the plug wires I had won't work with the engine. Will pick up a set tomorrow and try to start it.

[dotcentral]

Tried to start today, but no go. Again this is on my non-slick 71 F100.

I am using the RJM harness. Their universal (cheaper) harness. http://96.0.50.30/harness_manual-K.pdf

Measuring at the ignition coil, I get 12v on the ohm meter with key in ON position. I can hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds as well.

Measuring at the ignition coil, I get 0v on the ohm meter with key in START position. No sounds or noise that I can hear other than the fuel pump.

This was with the original coil that came with the motor and worked 4+ years ago. Replaced the coil with a brand new coil and got the same results.

Yes, the starter is good. Battery reads 12.0 volts. Grounds are good, can hear the fuel pumps run and get just the faintest wiff of fuel back near the gas tank. All electrical connectors and sensors are plugged in

Using the older style 4 post relay on the fender. It is a new relay.

Using the 5.0/HO firing order 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 with new Bosch plug wires and new plugs.

RJM instruction # 17, connect orange RJM wire to run wire @ ignition switch. I have the orange wire going into a light purple or lavender color wire. Again, this part seems to work fine.

I have connected purple RJM wire to start wire @ ignition switch. I have purple going into a light blue w/ red stripe wire. nothing happens.

Other 3 RJM wires (Green-Tach, Tan-engine light, Red-2nd check engine light) are not yet hooked up.


So, RJM users, any ideas?

[Toyz]

Not an RJM user, but, the OEM wire which feeds the fender relay is red w/ blue stripe. Is this the wire you are tying the purple RJM wire into? Does this purple wire hook to the relay "s" terminal?
A simple test to verify what you probably already know would be to hook a temporary jumper from the battery + to coil +, then attempt to start. Be aware that if this results in engine start, you will need to remove this jumper to "kill" the engine!
If it does start with the jumper, you will need to verify that your new purple wire does in fact run from ignition switch start terminal to the relay "S" terminal, and that a new RJM wire runs from the relay "I" terminal to the coil + terminal. This same terminal on the relay may also feed the starter solenoid "s" terminal to engage the gear reduction starter. The coil start wire COULD run from the starter solenoid to the coil, since this is a "universal" harness, but simplicity would dictate following original routing from fender relay to coil.
Sounds like you are only one or two wires away from completing the engine harness renewal!
Paul

[dotcentral]

A simple test to verify what you probably already know would be to hook a temporary jumper from the battery + to coil +, then attempt to start. Be aware that if this results in engine start, you will need to remove this jumper to "kill" the engine!

Don't know why we didn't try that, as it is one of the older tricks in the book.

I ran across this site: http://sbftech.com. They have a pretty good trouble shooting section. I have printed off some stuff from there to run through.

[PFM-64f100]

I seem to remember I grabbed the wrong wire for "start" on my 2 conversions. Sorry for the life of me I can't remember the coloring of the wires but I do remember taking the ign switch out and using my meeter until I found the correct wire for "Start". Good luck hang in there your almost there. Let us know.

[GearheadGraphics]

Good thread, im getting about ready to try to fire my EFI 5.0 in my 61. aod as well, with a gm column, so maybe ill get so skip some of your issues, makes me almost ready to just buy the lokar linkage, but ill fight with making my own for a bit.
my computer, relays and fuses are all mounted behind the firewall and the bulk of the wires going into the firewall are covered by a blister i built. im anal about visible wires,,, hate them!

[dotcentral]

A simple test to verify what you probably already know would be to hook a temporary jumper from the battery + to coil +, then attempt to start. Be aware that if this results in engine start, you will need to remove this jumper to "kill" the engine!

Don't know why we didn't try that, as it is one of the older tricks in the book.

Turns out we did try this "trick" last week, with no luck.

I am leaning towards the TFI module or whatever that module on the distributor is called. It was a junkyard distributor I bought years ago. Probably ought to check it before buying one.

Probably be another week before I can try anything.

[Toyz]

Ah, TFI; how are you tied into it? Also, if you replace it, you may consider remote mounting. A search at Turboford.com should yield some info, although mostly oriented toward the turbo fours, wiring should be the same. The sbftech article on the use of the non-dioded solenoid with the TFI may also be of interest, depending on the particular source for the TFI feed.
Paul

[62galxe]

Dont know if you have this link yet. Lots of good info.
http://oldfuelinjection.com/

[dotcentral]

I have the TFI that mounts to the distributor.

62, that is in my list of EFI sites, but thanks for rmeinding me, it's a good site.

Between weather, kids, and relatives visiting haven't had many good days to play with it. Did have a couple hours last week, but ran the battery down try to start it. Turns over fine, but won't fire. Looks like I am 2-3 teeth off on the distributor, I have #1 on the dist cap where # 3 ought to be. Hopefully will get some time in the next couple days to reinstall the battery and move the distributor over a couple teeth. I might try disconnecting the SPOUT first as well, need to re-read the RJM instructions for proper initial start procedures.

[dotcentral]

been busy so haven't had time to update lately.

Not been able to get it started. I can get it to turn over, but not fire. I replaced the Coil (not sure the old one was bad though), the TFI module on my junkyard distributor (old one looked like crap), and then finally, tried a new rebuilt distributor I got from NAPA. hasn't made a difference. Been trying to troubleshoot it using info from a couple different sites. Gets power, the fuel pump kicks on. I'm guessing there is an electrical issue somewhere between the coil and the distributor.

Probably going to have to get a second set of eyes to look at it.

[randyr]

been busy so haven't had time to update lately.

Not been able to get it started. I can get it to turn over, but not fire. I replaced the Coil (not sure the old one was bad though), the TFI module on my junkyard distributor (old one looked like crap), and then finally, tried a new rebuilt distributor I got from NAPA. hasn't made a difference. Been trying to troubleshoot it using info from a couple different sites. Gets power, the fuel pump kicks on. I'm guessing there is an electrical issue somewhere between the coil and the distributor.

Probably going to have to get a second set of eyes to look at it.

That's a bummer, Tim! I was hoping you've been driving it all over the country by now! Do you have a way to check the codes?
I'm starting my swap tomorrow, 4/25. I'm hoping that since everything came from the same running car that I can bolt it in, wire it up & fire it up......of course, that may be wishful thinking as Murphy's Law likes to show up now & then!