new to the slick scene and wanted to say HI

[Johnny Canuck]

sorry purrist at heart.... if it is a ford it should stay a ford, ever see a 32 ford with a chevy motor, turns my stomach, with a little more time and enginutiy a 302 or other ford motor would fit right in,

this is why i chose to put a supercharged cleveland in my 39 ford, wanted to be different

..

Looks like I have a new best friend!

but glenn, I have to tell you, garbz and Elpoacko are the guys at Industrial Chassis who MAKE the Dakota kit

[ELpolacko]

if it is a ford it should stay a ford, ever see a 32 ford with a chevy motor, turns my stomach

Interesting attitude to take from a "rod shop owner"


Beam axles are capable of going very fast. In fact the fastest cars on earth almost exclusively use them. Think Funny cars, Top fuel and Land speed record holders. The one thing that all of them have in common is a mechancial linkage connecting the axle to the frame. I would highly recomend ditching the stock beam in favor of a lighter tubular unit and an acoplished hot rodder like yourself should have no trouble fabricating a four bar system and suspending it with a pair of coil overs.

The key to making any suspension work under extreme speeds is to keep the unsprung wieght down to a minumum. Hence why I recomend something like the Strange Strut arrangement. Lightweight and durable as all get out. Plus the way they mount the steering arm low on the strut makes for an easy and low connection of the rack and pinion or other steering system. This will provide you with much more room for a flat bottomed drag style oil pan dry sump pumps and gear.

[BigTim]

Interesting attitude to take from a "rod shop owner"

Just guessing here that he does not want all the clients, only the best ones.

Welcome GlennZ.

If I ever take the Twin I out I will go with the Crown Vic swap. Don't intend to pull the front wheels though.

[Phil]

Glenn built my 466.

He's doing work on this car too.



http://www.torinocobra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1839

[glennz]

Interesting attitude to take from a "rod shop owner"

i will work on anything just about, the customer pays the bills, if wants to put a chevy in his ford or vise versa that is his call, i will do my best to talk him out of it but in the end it is what he wants...

now that does not have to translate to my personal cars, there are not many chrylsers that i like, a few chevy's that i would own, but my real love is fords, i would take a 32 ford with a ford over a 32 ford with a chevy any day

i have raced for many years but always cars never trucks so that is why the question came up, i would know what to do car wise for IFS, truck was a little different, what caused me to pick a truck was wheni went to a pinks all out at milan dragway, everyone noticed the different vehicles, how many mustangs or camaro's can you look at in one day, i thought a truck woul dbe cool

i like the sound of a solid front axle but was not sure how it would hold up in a truck at those speeds, and you right i could fab something up to make it work, but why reinvent the wheel if there is something else already on the market, the solid front axle on the front of a rear engine dragster is a little different then a solid axle under a front engine brick ( truck sorry )

the dakota set-up may be the best thing next to swiss cheese, i never critisized the 2 gentelmen that make this kit... just not my cup of tea, no offense intended if rods and customs made a kit for a truck i would probably go that route with a coil over tubular a-arm front suspension

and no i do not only take high dollar customers, i have done a few autorama cars in the past ( and done very well ), but my main goal in buisness is to offer a car at a decent price that he will enjoy driving, i enjoy doing resto-mods, i currently am doing a 70 vert torino that is going to have a 351C AOD trans, and 4 wheel disk brakes...

am trying to get a car together for this years autorama ( not promising still at paint ) 1965 comet, rod and customs tubular a-arm rack and pinioin, 351C, AOD, 9inch ford, 4 wheel disk brakes, the motor has the chi 3v heads and intake and a large .700 lift mechanical roller, on paper it dyno'sut to about 620 HP in a 2300 LB car

[Johnny Canuck]

[62 UNI]

Welcome aboard......keep us posted on the progress

Paul

[shawns fords]

Interesting attitude to take from a "rod shop owner"

i will work on anything just about, the customer pays the bills, if wants to put a chevy in his ford or vise versa that is his call, i will do my best to talk him out of it but in the end it is what he wants...

now that does not have to translate to my personal cars, there are not many chrylsers that i like, a few chevy's that i would own, but my real love is fords, i would take a 32 ford with a ford over a 32 ford with a chevy any day

i have raced for many years but always cars never trucks so that is why the question came up, i would know what to do car wise for IFS, truck was a little different, what caused me to pick a truck was wheni went to a pinks all out at milan dragway, everyone noticed the different vehicles, how many mustangs or camaro's can you look at in one day, i thought a truck woul dbe cool

i like the sound of a solid front axle but was not sure how it would hold up in a truck at those speeds, and you right i could fab something up to make it work, but why reinvent the wheel if there is something else already on the market, the solid front axle on the front of a rear engine dragster is a little different then a solid axle under a front engine brick ( truck sorry )

the dakota set-up may be the best thing next to swiss cheese, i never critisized the 2 gentelmen that make this kit... just not my cup of tea, no offense intended if rods and customs made a kit for a truck i would probably go that route with a coil over tubular a-arm front suspension

and no i do not only take high dollar customers, i have done a few autorama cars in the past ( and done very well ), but my main goal in buisness is to offer a car at a decent price that he will enjoy driving, i enjoy doing resto-mods, i currently am doing a 70 vert torino that is going to have a 351C AOD trans, and 4 wheel disk brakes...

am trying to get a car together for this years autorama ( not promising still at paint ) 1965 comet, rod and customs tubular a-arm rack and pinioin, 351C, AOD, 9inch ford, 4 wheel disk brakes, the motor has the chi 3v heads and intake and a large .700 lift mechanical roller, on paper it dyno'sut to about 620 HP in a 2300 LB car

CHI 3v heads? I am curious as to who they are, my local engine builder sells a MPG 3V head for clevelands as well. btw good honest reply as to your devotion. I grew up around mopars too, and I hate working on them lol, not much fun changing out a pass side engine mount on dads cuda 440 esp when ya gotta take the alternator bracket off to change it, and drain coolant to remove header to replace a starter, why I stick to fords

[Slick Fan]

and drain coolant to remove header to replace a starter, why I stick to fords

That's why you're supposed to leave the exhaust studs on each end of the head, so that won't happen.

[ELpolacko]

i enjoy doing resto-mods,

Say no more, were on completely different pages. I don't comprehend the concept of waiting for a pre-made kit for suspension purposes. I am a fabricator, not a restorer. That is the primary reason for me to build the Dakota based kit. I had to build something that wasn't available but filled the void where other redily avialable products didn't exist. I feel the Mustang II suspension, while a good design if not a little too neutral, was too small for the application for long term useage, I couldn't deal with the inherent lazy handling and ride charictaristics of the Volare' and subframing is just butchering in my opinion. .

Not that I haven't subframed, I have. But the way I do a subframe is a bit different than the average home spun affair. Here is an example:






I picked the Dakota as a base suspension to use on 50-60s trucks becaue of what it was, not because of it's brand name. It is the right track width, carries similar weight and drives well. Truth be known GM or Ford do not offer a mid-size truck or car with the same chariteristics, the Dakota is unique and alone if you rule out the imports.


I would love to see the comments surrounding my product line if I had used a Toyota Tundra as a base!

[shawns fords]

and drain coolant to remove header to replace a starter, why I stick to fords

That's why you're supposed to leave the exhaust studs on each end of the head, so that won't happen.

I didnt put them on the first time I had to fix someone elses

[glennz]

i enjoy doing resto-mods,

Say no more, were on completely different pages. I don't comprehend the concept of waiting for a pre-made kit for suspension purposes. I am a fabricator, not a restorer.

damn dude, didn't mean to get your panties in a ruffle, your welcome is appreciated and i am not by any means trying to steal any of your lime light

you do some good work there no denying it...

my motto work smarter not harder, i do a lot of fabricating also, but if there is a complete kit out there that takes all the brain work out of the equation i am all for it, i do several cars a year and do not have the time to sit and think about which subframe will work under which frame, some people have that luxury and time I DO NOT

as for the resto mod quote, that is what 75 % of people doing cars want, they want a car that rides nice, and is dependable...that is where the money is,

if you had the choice between a rattly old 60's mustang suspension or an updated 90's suspension under a classic mustang that you drove daily what would be your choice

also you are right on the mustang II suspension, much to be desired, but in the real world, how many people driving cars with that upgrade really can tell...... it drives and handles 100% better then their stock suspension, and the understeer problems associated with the mustang II kits are fixable also...and it is not an issue on every build, the rod and custom kits are based off of the mustang II but have several upgrades and are designed much better

i guess in my trade do i spend $2000 on a complete kit with brakes and all or do i spend countless hrs trying to figure out which front end swap will work, then cross your fingers, and then how much time wasted when it dose not work

i am really really glad that you have figured out the dakota kit for our trucks, you have a nitch in the market, how many man hrs did it take you to figure it out ?? and this is just for trucks, now multiply those man hrs by however many different cars produced throughout the years, are you going to tell me that you would sit and figure out every combination possible to fit under any given vehicle produced, why do it, it has already been done by heidts, fatman, and rods and customs, that is why i buy the kits, or the same reason anyone on this board would buy the dakota kit, because someone sat and figured out the way to make it work

so please do not call me any less of a fabricator because i use a proven kit to make an application work, it just boggles my mind that because i do not fabricate every part i use, that i am not on the same page ( or up to your caliber ) as you......

75 % of every car part for rods or restoration have been repoped, fabricated or altered already, why waste the time to reinvent the wheel.... do you really think that boyd ( bad example ) or foose or any of the other rof guys build 100% of the items they use, NO they order kits just like i do, to take the guess workout and save time and money....... that being said i guess anyone that uses your kit is taking the easy way out because they are buying it in kit form from you

you say

I don't comprehend the concept of waiting for a pre-made kit for suspension purposes

, but you can comprehend someone else waiting for a kit from you

if you ran a shop to make a living, would you spend 40 hrs @ $100 to try to fab up something that may not work or spend $2000 on a proven system...bad buisness practice if you select option #1

thanks again to everyone for the warm welcome, hopefully i will learn some things about the trucks, and who knows maybe someone could use my assistance also

[glennz]

CHI 3v heads? I am curious as to who they are, my local engine builder sells a MPG 3V head for clevelands as well. btw good honest reply as to your devotion.

the CHI's are made in aussie they have several different comb's avalible

http://www.chiheads.com/

if you follow popular hot rod engine masters amongst the top 5.... 4 were ford based motors with the CHI 4's, if i recall somewere in the neighbor hood of 700 HP

not sure on the MPG heads, but there is a knock off running around from pro-comp....not good stuff

with the CHI 3v's stock intake and exhaust can be used, the 4v's are different story

[shawns fords]

MPG is a local machine shop here in town, youll find the owner on engine masters, Scott Main, http://mpgheads.com
http://mpgheads.com/3V/Head.gif
thanks for the link, I will check it out, and prob add to my favorites

[ELpolacko]

Oh, I comprehend perfectly. Trust me I'm no spring chicken in this business. But I made two other suggestions that you did not acknowledge, so assumed you have no interest in because they involve fabricating.

I'm just a bit perplexed by someone that has as much experience as you claim and to raise the questions you do. I'm not taking anything away from your experience mind you. For all I know you couldd be Gregg Fleury or Lil' John screwing with us. All I stated is I believe we look at hot rodding from different perspectives. But thanks for ass-u-me(ing) I'm trying to belittle you. Sorry I'm not all hearts and kisses like the rest of the guys here.

do you really think that boyd ( bad example ) or foose or any of the other rof guys build 100% of the items they use,

I have not seen guys like Chip use pre-make kits for suspension purposes on any of his customers cars, only the TV stuff. SoCal fabs just about every customers car even though they fab frames for sale to the public because the stuff for the general population is sometimes outsourced to guys like the Kennedy Brothers. Boyd's shop rareley uses kits but does use the occasional frame from someone like Morrison. But guys like Brizios, SAR, Pinkies et-al, yeah, they do fabricate everything with minor exeption. It is what their customers want.

I myself buy some kits from time to time but only if it fits the bill which is seldom. But when dealing with an oddball vehicle you have to think outside of the "ahem" box. You put yourself in an odd position with one of these 60s era Ford trucks and imediatly dismiss the only IFS kit made specifically for these that isn't based on Mustang II parts.

And much to the dismay of the regular here, these trucks are oddball and out of the mainstream.

[Uncle Skip]

Steve, Garbz, Glen et al.
You know that not only I like you personally, you know I have a lot of respect for all of you, but this thread has gone on long enough.
If you want to take it to the parking lot, thats fine.
The rest of us don't need to hear about it.
Glen, thanks for joining us and we are glad to have you here.
Now lets get back to whats important..... trucks.
Thanks,
Uncle Skip

[glennz]

come on El polacko, can we draw the white flags now..

i have thought about your suggestions and it is not because of the fab work involved, i really did like the idea of the solid beam front and will probably be the avenue i will pursue, just was not sure how much abuse and stability a solid front axle can offer

so can i ask without to much critisizm, you mention a lightweight tubular axle, is there a premade item or is it fabbed

that is why i asked here first...as you stated the mustang II based front ends will not handle the abuse of the wheel stands ( if there are any ) what would make the dakota front IFS any better doing wheel stands,

you just ass-u-me i had no interest in your ideas


not sure who Gregg Fleury or Lil' John are, but a regular member here has already spoken up for me and knows me and my work...


and i agree when working on odd ball vehicles ( like our trucks ) you have to think out of the box, but for everyday vehicles and more common vehicles, what is wrong with making a job easier when someone else has already done their home work...

ask heavy hauler about the 50 ford truck we did for autorama, straight axle with rack and pinion ( not a kit ) and tilt fiberglass front end ...hydraulic ( not a kit ) 8.8 rearend ( not a kit ) and several frame modifications ( not a kit )

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u96/ ... ma%202006/


for those with a little more time also a few pics of my personal cars and customer cars

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u96/drzrodshop/cars/

[Slick Fan]

Steve, Garbz, Glen et al.
You know that not only I like you personally, you know I have a lot of respect for all of you, but this thread has gone on long enough.
If you want to take it to the parking lot, thats fine.
The rest of us don't need to hear about it.
Glen, thanks for joining us and we are glad to have you here.
Now lets get back to whats important..... trucks.
Thanks,
Uncle Skip

for those with a little more time also a few pics of my personal cars and customer cars

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u96/drzrodshop/cars/

WOAH!
Man, I bet she could kick my azz...and look damn good doin' it!

[glennz]

yep that is the better half, standing in front of the 66 mustang we did for autorama 2 years ago. took 4 out of 45 vehicles

the wife competes in body building, it is a class called figure, it is a class that leans twords lean and fit ladies still with a femanine side, she is actually at a national level now and going to compete for national titles next year

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u96/drzrodshop/comp/


ever see fullblown women body builder YIKES

[ELpolacko]

Ok, now that were back on topic.....

Beam axles are capable of going very fast. In fact the fastest cars on earth almost exclusively use them. Think Funny cars, Top fuel and Land speed record holders. The one thing that all of them have in common is a mechancial linkage connecting the axle to the frame. I would highly recomend ditching the stock beam in favor of a lighter tubular unit and an acoplished hot rodder like yourself should have no trouble fabricating a four bar system and suspending it with a pair of coil overs.

I will expound, For the purposes of drag racing the beam axle is the most stable when combined with a four bar type system, period. Pre-made axles can be ordered to your specifications from companies like www.Speedwaymotors.com or MAS which commonly advertise in Rod & Custom, Street Rodder, Hot Rod and many others.

High quality adjustable drag racing coil overs from www.afcoracing.com Koni, Pro and a few others. I use Bilstien currently and can have them valved specicaly for the application but they are not adjustable.

I have been involved with some seriously fast drag vehicles over the years. Some may remember this fiasco where Truckin' Magazine handed me my ass after I wouldn't build them a 7-8 second street/drag truck for free!

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb93 ... ST%202000/

I too have a ton of pictures on Photobucket, still adding to them when I'm not doing anything too important.

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/ELpolacko/