Re: Dana 60 5x5.5 Lug in 1/2 Ton Custom Cab

[Hawkrod]

Traction lock = ford generic term for a locking rear

Positraction = GMs generic term for a locking rear

Everyone on this planet knows cousin Vinne's girl cant be wrong...

If i called it a posi i would have had all the chevy haters on my back...

Dont care when it cam out.... If you wanted a limited slip type differential at the time of order you got the Dana/spicer. End of story. What may have been added at the dealer or by a PO who knows. The warranty plate will tell the tale of what rear was installed at the time fo manufacture.

Garbz

Traction Lock is not a generic term for a Ford limited slip. Ford has offered several different limited slips and used different names for them. Traction Lock and Equa Lock are just the two most common. Hawkrod

[Garbz]

Really? I get on your side and ya smack me....Thanks....

LOL....

Garbz

[shawns fords]

I state facts based on my own personal experiences, not from some crap I decided was the truth. I dont base any of my ideas on what someone else says only what I actually know. Have you ever have a vehicle brand new, that needed a part that was not yet available? I bet not. I have. you will sit there and wait for the fucking thing to get pulled off the assembly line. which can take weeks, then your going to say the manufacturer will put that vehicle off to the side because they dont have another? bullshit. they will put whatever there is available.

believe what you want, I go by personal experiences

I am sorry but you still haven't answered the question? What do your posts have to do with anything regarding how a vehicle was originally built. I realize you don't know much about how this was done from your posts. I do have experience in both the service side and plenty of visits to the assembly plant. People like you who do not understand how a vehicle assembly plant works do not know that there are not huge piles of parts waiting to be used. The parts are not just sent to the plant in hopes that a car or truck may need it. That is not how the process works. You really need to experience it first hand before you start commenting on how it was done. Some of us are obviously much more knowledgable than you are in the field. I also think you do not have a clear understanding about how components are built. Engines are not built at the same place as cars. I think that is part of what has you confused. Engines come from the engine assembly plant, vehicles come from the vehicle assembly plant. These are two different places. When a new engine is needed and parts does not have them yet it will not come from the vehicle assembly plant, it will come from the engine assembly plant where they make them. As far as sidelined cars, there are often several dozen at any given moment and sometimes hundreds will sit in the lot in extreme cases. You write "I state facts based on my own personal experiences, not from some crap I decided was the truth" and yet that is exactly what you are doing. It is obvious from your post that you never worked an assembly plant and you do not understand the process, you are just making up fart gas and calling it the truth, the only BS here is what you wrote because I know you have no personal experience just based on what you wrote. Hawkrod

Obviously you never read my first post. I said it very clearly, maybe you dont have the time
Either way I dont give a shit if you understand me or no

[Fordified1]

Traction Lock is not a generic term for a Ford limited slip. Ford has offered several different limited slips and used different names for them. Traction Lock and Equa Lock are just the two most common. Hawkrod

Were they really that much different? Or did Ford's marketing dpt. just play with different names for them? 9" Traction locks are made totally different than the Traction Locks in 7.5" and 8.8" rear ends. Only similarity being that they have spring-loaded clutch packs. Don't Equa-Locks and Traction locks both use spring-loaded clutch-packs? There are at least two seperate versions of the Traction Lock in 9" diffs. yet they kept the same name. Just curious why Ford named basically the same things differently..

.

[crewzinforabrewzin]

cant say i know much about how a ford assembly line works. i do believe though that geting into pissing matches over who is more educated and knows more then the other is realy only showing stupidity. personaly i think the more someone keeps raggin on about how much they know, are the ones who realy dont know.

come on people can't we all just get a bong

[Hawkrod]

Traction Lock is not a generic term for a Ford limited slip. Ford has offered several different limited slips and used different names for them. Traction Lock and Equa Lock are just the two most common. Hawkrod

Were they really that much different? Or did Ford's marketing dpt. just play with different names for them? 9" Traction locks are made totally different than the Traction Locks in 7.5" and 8.8" rear ends. Only similarity being that they have spring-loaded clutch packs. Don't Equa-Locks and Traction locks both use spring-loaded clutch-packs? There are at least two seperate versions of the Traction Lock in 9" diffs. yet they kept the same name. Just curious why Ford named basically the same things differently..

.

It is actually the design of the springs that applies the load and how the gears work that makes the difference. You say that Traction locks for 7.5 and 8.8 are totaly different than 9 inch and I say you are mistaken, the design is identical. They both have spring loaded clutch plates and side gears etc... The parts do not look the same or interchange but the design is the same. The Equa Lock is totally different. The Traction lock design is a torque sensitive design that uses center springs and side gear thrust load to clamp while the Equa Lock uses a Belleville spring to maintain constant pressure on the clutch pack. The difference is the more load applied to a Traction Lock the tighter it grabs the clutches while an Equa lock only has a preset amount of engagement and it never gets any tighter. Do not mistake how something looks with what the design is. A Mont Blanc and a BIC can both be ball point pens, they don't look the same at all but they work the same way! Hawkrod

[Hawkrod]

cant say i know much about how a ford assembly line works. i do believe though that geting into pissing matches over who is more educated and knows more then the other is realy only showing stupidity. personaly i think the more someone keeps raggin on about how much they know, are the ones who realy dont know.

come on people can't we all just get a bong

Yeah, okay, I am sure you are correct. Hawkrod

[Hawkrod]

Obviously you never read my first post. I said it very clearly, maybe you dont have the time
Either way I dont give a shit if you understand me or no

I read your first post and that is why I can't figure out what is up with you. You claim that I am wrong about the manufacturing process based on what happens after the car is delivered to a customer and has a problem. What does the after delivery issue have to do with how they build vehicles? I keep asking, but all you do is cover up rather than explain anything. I am sorry but your BS stinks and you can't even tell the truth and I have proven that. It is very sad that you have to result to name calling and vulgarity instead of explaining yourself and acting like a man. Trying to throw people off your scent by pointing fingers only shows how inexperienced you are. You don't care if I understand? So what? I only care if people understand the truth and not some made up version from somebody like you who has never been there. How many times have you been in an assembly plant? How many times have you been to the archives doing research? How many years have you worked as an archivist for Ford documentation? I can go on but my point is you did exactly the opposite of what you claimed, you made it up and lied rather than educate yourself. That is pure stupidity. You could have come away from this with a better understanding of how the process works and instead you lied and got angry about getting caught and now all you are coming away with is bitterness because you have been exposed for all to see. Reread your own first post Shawn, it had nothing to do with my post and does not explain anything about my post. Your getting mad is stupid. I was probably doing this when you were in diapers, I was working at Ford when you were probably still in Elementary school. I have been selling vintage Ford parts for more than 25 years now after I left Ford. I am not new to this. This is what I do. I have written books and magazine articles, I have been a senior judge for many different Ford clubs for decades. You are simply confused and have a serious misunderstanding of how vehicles are built and where parts come from and that is because you have never been there despite the fact that you claim you only speak from experience. Hawkrod

[crewzinforabrewzin]

blah- blah-blah ..... the bullshit i smell coming from a couple people on this post reminds me of the dairy farm i worked on during high school. wish i still had my rubber boots from that job. they were great for tramping through shit. on the other hand it is pretty deep in here, i might be better off with my hip waders i use for stealhead fishing[/i][/b]

[Texas Monty]

I had the original Dana 60 - with the 4:10 ratio - matching door tag B5. This truck also has the extra leaf in the spring - I guess this was some sort of heavy duty model? In the 60s when farmers pulled cotton trailers to town - before the days of modules - this was the rear end you wanted. I have run across so called Ford experts - that told me that 'no way did that come with a F-100 short bed - only F-250/350'. but they were wrong.

but I swapped it for a 9 inch - with 3:25 and sure am glad. I had to shorten the drive shaft - but it all worked out.

Incidentally - for whatever it's worth - the way this thread veered into uglyness - is pretty much why I spend more time on FTE than this one. Why in the heck a discussion on Ford rear ends gets personal is beyond me.

[jbolivar]

I had the original Dana 60 - with the 4:10 ratio - matching door tag B5. This truck also has the extra leaf in the spring - I guess this was some sort of heavy duty model? In the 60s when farmers pulled cotton trailers to town - before the days of modules - this was the rear end you wanted. I have run across so called Ford experts - that told me that 'no way did that come with a F-100 short bed - only F-250/350'. but they were wrong.

but I swapped it for a 9 inch - with 3:25 and sure am glad. I had to shorten the drive shaft - but it all worked out.

Incidentally - for whatever it's worth - the way this thread veered into uglyness - is pretty much why I spend more time on FTE than this one. Why in the heck a discussion on Ford rear ends gets personal is beyond me.

Hey, thanks for the info on your truck. What year truck was the Dana 60 under and was yours also a 5 on 5.5? Do you know if it was a powr lok or trac lok? I'm guessing it was a powr lok since I've read from other members that the trac lok came out in the late 60's, and my truck is a 64. I know I can pull it apart and find out, just haven't gotten there yet. I have pictures of it posted in my gallery. Why do you like the 9" better? What size motor and trans, etc. are you running? I'm putting in a 70 429 and c6. I like the Dana I've got. It looks cool and an aluminum cover can be added for the coolness race factor. I'm not sure if it's a powr lok though. Anybody know by looking at the pictures in my gallery? Thanks, Jim

[Texas Monty]

Same as yours - 1964. Dont' know nothing bout no 5 on 5.5, or power/trak lock. I swapped it out since I lucked into a 9 inch with the ratio I wanted. I realize I could have gotten the gear ratioo changed on the Dana , but it was cheaper this way. and it came with new brakes - which I needed. and had the Posi traction - it corners much better.

My engine is the 262-6 - only offered in 63 and 64 (I think). the tranny is the Warner 4 speed with the granny -and I was in 4th gear at 25 mph with that 4:10. and it was so loud at 55 I couldn't hear the radio - and more RPMs than it needed.
and I had power to spare - but I still have plenty with this 3:25. my speedometer is way off, but my mileage improved.

Those shiny aluminum covers on the Dana do look good.
I still have my Dana though - might sell it, might keep it. I got an offer on Racing junk.com (great website - try it) but it isn't cost affective to ship it to this guy in Jersey.

[Hawkrod]

Just a quick note on the last two posts for those that do not know, a Traction Lock and Trak Lock are two different limited slip units, one is made by Dana and the other is Ford. The Ford Traction lock came out in mid 68 model year and is used in Ford made axles and the Dana could have a Power Lock or Trak Lock. I know this is very confusing which is why I post this just in case anybody does not realize there is a difference. Hawkrod

[jbolivar]

Thanks for the web site link for racing parts. How much did he offer?

[Texas Monty]

$300 - but it would cost almost that much to ship it - so he opted out.

It is about twice as heavy as the 9 inch. It is unreal heavy when you get it off - I had already muscled around my 9 inch and figured I was a big boy, until I got that Dana off.

[jbolivar]

$300 - but it would cost almost that much to ship it - so he opted out.

It is about twice as heavy as the 9 inch. It is unreal heavy when you get it off - I had already muscled around my 9 inch and figured I was a big boy, until I got that Dana off.

What makes it heavier? They look about the same size. You think a couple hundred pounds heavier?

[Fordified1]

Here's a Unibody on eBay with what I assume is a Dana. It's sure not a 9".
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-F-1 ... 0203571160

Up until I read these Dana60 threads here... I would have lost money in a bet that All Ford 1/2 ton trucks had 9" axles under them from 1955 up until the 1980's. Never too old to learn right?

.

[shawns fords]

Obviously you never read my first post. I said it very clearly, maybe you dont have the time
Either way I dont give a shit if you understand me or no

I read your first post and that is why I can't figure out what is up with you. You claim that I am wrong about the manufacturing process based on what happens after the car is delivered to a customer and has a problem. What does the after delivery issue have to do with how they build vehicles? I keep asking, but all you do is cover up rather than explain anything. I am sorry but your BS stinks and you can't even tell the truth and I have proven that. It is very sad that you have to result to name calling and vulgarity instead of explaining yourself and acting like a man. Trying to throw people off your scent by pointing fingers only shows how inexperienced you are. You don't care if I understand? So what? I only care if people understand the truth and not some made up version from somebody like you who has never been there. How many times have you been in an assembly plant? How many times have you been to the archives doing research? How many years have you worked as an archivist for Ford documentation? I can go on but my point is you did exactly the opposite of what you claimed, you made it up and lied rather than educate yourself. That is pure stupidity. You could have come away from this with a better understanding of how the process works and instead you lied and got angry about getting caught and now all you are coming away with is bitterness because you have been exposed for all to see. Reread your own first post Shawn, it had nothing to do with my post and does not explain anything about my post. Your getting mad is stupid. I was probably doing this when you were in diapers, I was working at Ford when you were probably still in Elementary school. I have been selling vintage Ford parts for more than 25 years now after I left Ford. I am not new to this. This is what I do. I have written books and magazine articles, I have been a senior judge for many different Ford clubs for decades. You are simply confused and have a serious misunderstanding of how vehicles are built and where parts come from and that is because you have never been there despite the fact that you claim you only speak from experience. Hawkrod

ok I copied and pasted it so you can read it again
Many times, as a Dealer technician when a new model shipped to the Dealer, then sold, then come back with a part that failed and none available yet, the Manufacturer would have to pull the part from assembly line, If not there would be cars sitting at dealerships in the back for 6 months to a year waiting for the parts to be manufactured, Generally not every part on the vehicle is already in production to be sold or under warranty especially if its a new model or a new models part. I have had cars sit for 4-6 weeks waiting for a new part to come off the assembly line engines Rear ends or whatever was needed.
enough said

[Hawkrod]

ok I copied and pasted it so you can read it again
Many times, as a Dealer technician when a new model shipped to the Dealer, then sold, then come back with a part that failed and none available yet, the Manufacturer would have to pull the part from assembly line, If not there would be cars sitting at dealerships in the back for 6 months to a year waiting for the parts to be manufactured, Generally not every part on the vehicle is already in production to be sold or under warranty especially if its a new model or a new models part. I have had cars sit for 4-6 weeks waiting for a new part to come off the assembly line engines Rear ends or whatever was needed.
enough said

Thank you for posting it again but what part of that makes my post wrong? That is all I am asking. You wrote "actually thats not quite true either" (I notice you did not actually repost your the whole post) in reference to my post about how vehicles were built on the assembly line. I wrote:

Unfortunately that is not quite true. If a truck was scheduled to have a 9 inch and there were none available the truck would be sidelinded, they would not intentionally install the wrong rear end. Especially when that rear end required different components like spring mounts and driveshafts. If a truck has a Dana 60 then it was scheduled to have a Dana 60. That is how it worked then and now. The assembly line does not build rear ends. The rear ends are ordered from the drivetrain plant and come pre assembled and scheduled to be installed. If they had 100 unit scheduled for assembly they ordered 100 rear ends (that is an example, an order would be for 1000's of rear ends). The assembly plants did not have huge piles of parts waiting to be used, they had the parts they needed to assemble scheduled units plus a percentage for failure. Unfortunately suggesting that Ford "used whatever they had" is just furthering a myth that has no basis in reality. Hawkrod

http://mysite.verizon.net/tcherry3/ford ... torial.htm

to which you responded:

actually thats not quite true either, Many times, as a Dealer technician when a new model shipped to the Dealer, then sold, then come back with a part that failed and none available yet, the Manufacturer would have to pull the part from assembly line, it hapopened back then and does still to this day. If not there would be cars sitting at dealerships in the back for 6 months to a year waiting for the parts to be manufactured, Generally not every part on the vehicle is already in production to be sold or under warranty especially if its a new model or a new models part. I have had cars sit for 4-6 weeks waiting for a new part to come off the assembly line engines Rear ends or whatever was needed.

As you can clearly see, your post had nothing to do with mine and does not show where I was wrong in any way, it only says that after the vehicle left the plant and was already built and you needed a part for service that you would get it somewhere else. When I asked you why you would post something unrelated and try and use it to call me a liar you got stupid and wrote:

I state facts based on my own personal experiences, not from some crap I decided was the truth. I dont base any of my ideas on what someone else says only what I actually know. Have you ever have a vehicle brand new, that needed a part that was not yet available? I bet not. I have. you will sit there and wait for the fucking thing to get pulled off the assembly line. which can take weeks, then your going to say the manufacturer will put that vehicle off to the side because they dont have another? bullshit. they will put whatever there is available.

believe what you want, I go by personal experiences

Which just turns out to be a huge lie as you managed to prove that you are not familiar with the assembly line process and had never worked there. You also still do not seem to understand that Ford has many hundreds of different assembly plants and when they need parts that can't be had anywhere else they do not get them from the vehicle assembly plant, they get them from the components assembly plant. I have to say that I find it very sad that you decided to tell everybody I was wrong when I wasn't, that you never managed to show in any way that I was wrong and then you lied and misled people to try and prove your point. I suggest that next time you shouldn't call somebody out when you do not know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, you may yet again find that there are people in this world who have done things that you have not done, been places that you have not been and are more familiar with subject than you are. I do not know everything, I learn new things daily. I even make mistakes, the difference is I only post when I am reasonably certain that the information I have is correct and that my post is right. It makes for fewer stupid mistakes (but does not eliminate them totally!). One of the issues you seem to have with my posts is the issue of sidelining cars and trucks at the vehicle assembly plant, I will throw and unrelated curve ball at you just to give you an idea of how large a pool of sidelined cars can be, did you know that in the spring of 1968 Ford came out with the 428 Cobra Jet engine? The cars were available with two new gear ratios, 3.91 and 4.30. They sold quite a few of them especially to racers. Unfortunately in field experience and further testing showed a high failure rate on these cars so just after the introduction of the 69's they announced a new engine (the Super Cobra Jet) which had heavier components and an engine oil cooler which would be used in all 3.91 and 4.30 cars. Unfortunately they did not have the components available so ALL of the cars were sidelined from late July until October. Yes, every single customer order, every dealer order, all but a mere handful that were built prior to the decision were sidelined. There were thousands of them between all of the assembly plants. Ford could have easily just continued building them as they had before as they had plenty of parts available but the was not the scheduled program so the bodies just sat and waited. Now if you get a Marti report for one of these cars it can actually show that the body was bucked in July but not finished until December! Ford actually kept the records to show this. I only use this example as it is so easy to verify and it illustrates my point, if a vehicle assembly plant does not have the correct component to assemble a vehicle they do not just use something else unless it is a direct replacement (say, white door panels instead of the red ones that were supposed to be used). The vehicle assembly line does not build rear ends or driveshafts, those parts come premade from a component plant and are there to be used as a specific combo. They would not just slap a Dana 60 in a truck because they had them laying around. They had them there because they were scheduled to be used. Because they were scheduled to be used they also had mounts and correct length driveshafts for the assembly. They do not make these kinds of parts at the vehicle assembly plant so they could not just slap it together when it came down the line. If teh components needed are not there the vehicle does not get built. Finally, about leftover parts: FYI, at the end of the model year during line change, any parts not scheduled to be used on the new model are removed from the vehicle assembly plant en mass. It is quite a site to see when they start lining up the trucks to haul the leftovers out. Did I say leftovers? Yes, I did. As I already mentioned before, Ford only had enough parts to build the scheduled units plus a percentage for failure. That extra percentage can often be enough to build a many dozen vehicles (which is a small number comparatively, some assembly lines build 75 cars an hour!). I realize this is horribly long but I think it is important that you and everybody else realize how this process works not spread more myth. Hawkrod

[Jarrod]

I like cake