Anyone have a C4 in a 65-78? I need your help....

cdherman · Post by **cdherman** » March 17, 2008, 11:23 pm

OK, as some of you perhaps know, I am switching over to a C4 in my 65.

Today my father helped me put it in. Good thing, as I would have never gotten it by myself and even then I think we kind of shoehorned it in.

The C4 I got was from a mustang with a 302. It has the large housing, flywheel (164 tooth) and 12" torque convertor. It also has the long tailshaft. Looks like a "conehead". It is a case fill transmission -- early C4's were panfill, but everything I have read says that casefill trannies are fine, so long as you have the right bell (which I have)

The C4 in 65 would have been a panfill.

The 65 shop manual, as well as chiltons makes installation/removal sound pretty easy. They didn't mention that it would hang up so bad on the firewall and mid crossmember that I needed to remove the tailhousing AND even then, still pry the bellhousing over the crossmember with brute force.....

We got it in. It was a royal bugger..... Even with the tailhousing off, the output shaft hits on the middle cab cross member and keeps you from tipping the tranny forward. This in turn means the bottom of the bell catches on the middle cross member and the top of the bell hits the firewall right forward of the hump cutout.

So my question. Can it be that C4 trannies in trucks ALL got the short tailhousing? I have seen pictures of them, and that is what is shown in my manual in ONE picture, though in another picture, it shows the long tailhousing (like from a car).

With a short tailhousing, I think this would have went in just as described in the manual.

If it is true that trucks got short tailhousings, then I can tell you now, there is a REALLY GOOD REASON TO STICK WITH THAT DECISION BY FOMOCO!!!!!!!!!!

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » March 18, 2008, 6:16 am

You have to remove the crossmember that runs between the two radius arms to install or remove the automatic transmission.
That crossmember in all automatic transmission trucks was bolted in, not riveted in, for just that reason.
You can grind off the heads from the underside with a cheap electric handheld grinder, then punch them through. Easy enough to do.
I had to do this when I installed a C-6 behind the original FE, and them had to remove it again later when I put in an automatic behind the 460.

At least, for installation anyway. I don't know about the correct C-4s at all. Hope this helps.

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » March 18, 2008, 7:51 am

David. I would think that removing that crossmember would have save you quite a bit of work. Hope you didn't scratch the old girl up too bad, and glad you got it in.

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » March 18, 2008, 7:58 am

heres the problem , Ford realized they made a mistake on that crossmember for automatics and finally somewheres in 75-76 they made a drop crossmember so does not have to be removed to get that automatic in and out, NOW I Have seen a lot of trucks with this crossmember cut off nd left off IN WHICH IS VERY DANGEROUS AND SHOULD BE PUT BACK IN, DO NOT DRIVE Without this crossmember. Time after time I see trucks going up and down the road withouth this crossmember,, With this in mind I can look and see if the transmission has ever been changed by being cut or bolts back in the crossmember since rivots are in there first, All Factory automatic trucks the crossmember where rivoted in rivots on the bottom and then right under the cab on top side of the frame rail is bolts that have to be unbolted, not much room but can be done...

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » March 18, 2008, 8:11 am

Tom has hit on an important point - don't leave that crossmember off. It keeps the frame from twisting, especially when turning. WIth it off, it can make you lose control of the truck.
Like he said, the lower rivets (2 on each side) are easy to get to, and the upper part of the frame is bolted in.

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » March 18, 2008, 8:29 am

OOps doppleganger post

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » March 18, 2008, 8:30 am

6166 Junkyard Dog wrote:heres the problem , Ford realized they made a mistake on that crossmember for automatics and finally somewheres in 75-76 they made a drop crossmember so does not have to be removed to get that automatic in and out

I kept that crossmember for YEARS from my parted out '78 wondering if anyone would ever need it. Just threw it out about 3 months ago.

cdherman · Post by **cdherman** » March 18, 2008, 8:52 am

Well, We got it in there WITH the middle cross member in place. And it was a royal PITA.

What is really annoying is that I have a 65 Shop manual and a Chiltons and they BOTH fail to mention the need to remove the middle cross member (the one between the radius arms).

So, I wish this little detail had been recorded in the electronic lore and I had read it BEFORE last night!

Oh Well, we did get it in!!!

bertha66 · Post by **bertha66** » March 18, 2008, 10:25 am

My son and I have two trucks with the Cruise-o-matic trans in them, one 66 and one 67 and they are short shaft trans. We did switch trans in them without pulling the crossmenber.

FarmTrk · Post by **FarmTrk** » March 18, 2008, 11:55 am

I have a C-4 in a 66 with a 302. If I can help you any let me know in a pm.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » March 18, 2008, 12:02 pm

that is my reply to the warning above.

yes i cut out those crossmembers before and left them out. in 4x4s and with no ill effects like frame bending or loss of control while turning.
lots of rough miles on the frame afterwards too.

of course this is leaf spring 4x4 axles not twin i beam 2wd.

generally i believe what comes out should be replaced, but this did not happen with the crossmembers.

flog away if you wish.

the rest of you should listen and not leave out the crossmember.

Anyone have a C4 in a 65-78? I need your help....

Anyone have a C4 in a 65-78? I need your help....

C-4 in 65