Wiring problems

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » April 15, 2008, 8:39 am

Time flys when you're having fun.
Big Red, better known as Carl, one of my partners here in Houston is a guy that could F up a steel ball in a rubber room.
So this last weekend he tried to move Nadine in the warehouse to clean up some stuff, he did just that.
You guessed it.
She quit in the middle of the short move (about 25 feet).
Honest, he has a little black cloud hanging over his head and has a real talent for this kind of thing.
Now I got no power to the ignition switch, so I'm guessing its in the fuse panel.
If I can't track it down and fix it, I'm getting another harness at Pate and re-doing the whole enchalada.
Pisses me off but at least she didn't crap out on me between Wichita and K.C.
That would really suck.
U@ss

PFM-64f100 · Post by **PFM-64f100** » April 15, 2008, 10:50 am

Don't let him touch Nadine again dang 25 ft .

.. should be an easy fix just run a new hot wire.

I also know someone that has luck like that not that bad just almost. Poor guy he just needs to remeber OIL and all will be good. (I can't say no more..)

You bringing Nadine to pate this year? And yes a full re wire does wonder for you and the truck. I love my new wire harness sure did help when I hooked up the trailer plug wrong and blew 2 fues. Quick change of fuse and all was working again. It only took 2 secs to find the fuse and change.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » April 15, 2008, 12:20 pm

Glad to hear from you Skip! Keep us posted on what you're up to. Sorry about Nadine.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » April 15, 2008, 4:22 pm

Skip,maybe its something simple like loose battery cable.how long had she been sitting?

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » April 15, 2008, 4:54 pm

Ice: Are you talking about Nadine or his partner? Sounds like the solution could apply to either? LOL.

Max · Post by **Max** » April 15, 2008, 9:09 pm

That was my Pate 2007 buy - brand new 21 circuit wiring harness. Skip could save a few bucks and just get the all black wires since he's color blind.

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » August 24, 2008, 3:29 pm

Guys.
Sorry I let this one slide.
A member here was good enough to make a custom harness for me last year and it failed. I have no intention of ragging him on it, he did a good job for what I paid, but something is wrong internally in the fuse block setup and I don't have the schematic and can't figure out what the problem is.
Besides, some of the wires were mislabled and I had to ad lib when it went in the truck.
He also went to the trouble to put the original switches back in the harness.... that turned out to be a not so great idea because of cracked and broken terminals, wires, etc.
So.......
1. I took the original harness and made a test bench to see what every damn wire was and where it went. Its a plywood 3x4 board with heavy battery terminals for my little gel cell motorcycle battery. It has a trailer red running light on the left side hooked up to 2 aligator clips and wires for the ground, and 2 aligator clips and wires on the hot side.
2. I hooked up every circuit to see how things were wired and made notes and drawings (I'll share if anyone needs the info).
3. At Pate this year, I scored an older Ron Francis fuse block (he wants me to send it back and sell me a new $450.00 unit). No help from Ron. I used the test bench to identify all the circuits in the fuse block and now I think I'll be ready to re-wire Nadine.
(He said I couldn't make it work. That's probably because he's used to dealing with chebby boys.)
4. I asked here for an extra harness or two and one of the guys sent me his old. The reason was, the wires going to the firewall plugs on my original harness were completely shot and I wanted to have some way to connect/ disconnect the wiring in the cab to the wiring under the hood.
The way I have it now, everything is wired direct from switch/ fuse block to the source - coil, lights, brake switch, et al, and its kind of getting out of hand.
5. So now, I'm either going to have to buy all new switches and create my own wire harness with the Ron Francis fuse block, or I'm going to go the NASCAR toggle switch route and create my own harness with the Ron Francis unit.
So what I'm asking now is, since Nadine is not now, nor will she ever be a stock truck, which way should I go with the switches/ toggles?
As usual, all opinions are welcome.
Anyway, thanks guys.
Uncle Skip... er ah, I mean, Little Debbie from Nebraska
(JC, I heard you said something about me being a Sasquach..... bite me

)
ROTFLMAO

johnny · Post by **johnny** » August 24, 2008, 6:37 pm

im probably a little late on this but i used one of these kits just ebay ez wiring they have a couple of options put 1 in each of my 55's

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EZ-WIRIN ... 06.c0.m245

johnny · Post by **johnny** » August 24, 2008, 6:39 pm

im probably a little late on this but i used one of these kits just ebay ez wiring they have a couple of options put 1 in each of my 55's i hope you have good luck with nadine take care
John

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EZ-WIRIN ... 06.c0.m245

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » August 24, 2008, 7:00 pm

Johnny.
Thanks for the heads up, but all these harnesses do not address the one problem I have. Even the Ron Francis unit.
I want a separate circuit for my accessories when the truck is not running.
That is, I need to make sure the emergency flashers, wipers, brake lights and radio/ stereo work when the ignition is shut off to protect the coil and electronic ignition.
The key positions on a Slick are accessory, off, on, and start.
On and accessory positions make all the circuits energized when the key is in that position. The only one that is different is the start position and it does work properly....... energizes the S terminal on the starter solenoid for the starter motor.
The way the original wiring is made, everything is on in the on and accessory positions. That means your coil is still hot when youre trying to listen to Wolfman Jack with your main squeeze in a secluded place. Not good.
Its hard to explain here, but all the harnesses I have, have the same problem. That's why I'm going to do my own.
Anyway, thanks again and what is your opinion on original switches as opposed to a NASCAR style toggle arrangement?
I'm leaning to the NASCAR style just to be different.
Comments?
Sasquach in northwestern Washington.

ROTFLMAO

jwh f-100 · Post by **jwh f-100** » August 24, 2008, 8:28 pm

Uncle Skip,
I am not exactly sure how to answer you so maybe I will not be much help. I will give it a shot as I am in the middle of the same thing.

Here is what I am doing/ done so far…… Some pics here - http://fordtruk.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... f5bc01d302

I put three connectors on the firewall.
1. A six pin connector for the front lights and horn.
a. high beam
b. low beam
c. markers
d. right
e. left
f. horn
2. Another six pin connector for the rear. I actually bought a piece of 16/6 pre loomed trailer harness for here.
a. marker
b. right
c. left
d. fuel gauge
e. possible reverse lights
f. possible trailer brake
3. A 15 pin used for the engine and battery wires and also plenty of spares if needed.
a. alt light
b. coil
c. crank
d. battery / to key switch
e. battery / headlight relays
f. battery / headlight switch , horn relay and other “hot” circuits

As far as the cab and fuse block I sat down at the kitchen table and slowly work through what was needed. One group of wires to the firewall connectors, one group to the dimmer switch, one group to the ignition/headlight switch area, one group to the column for the signal switch, and one to the dash/switch/radio area. I plan to use another six pin connector at the column and at the back of the instrument cluster.

I plan to use a couple original and a couple new switches from here. -
http://www.hotrodwires.com
I am purchasing a new headlight switch that will accept the original knob that comes with a new plug and pins. I will also use a new dimmer switch that comes with a plug and pins. On the ignition switch I removed the original plug and just simply using good 3M female spade that will stay in place. For the heater and wiper I will use single terminal weather pack style connectors to connect the original power wires without using butt connectors.

PS Not sure if your fuse block will allow key accesories to be seperate from hot all the time but the original ignition switch will. The stud in the center is for accessories and one of the spades can be used for the coil. When your key is turned to acc. the "coil" spade is not hot. When you are cranking the center accesory stud looses voltage but regains power after you stop cranking. If your block is sereated for hot items and key items you will be all set, you'll just need to shut of your extra items when you just want to listen to the radio.

You can end up with three major circuits(if the box is split).
1. Hot all the time.... Batery to "side one" of the fuse block to hot all the time items (radio memory ect. ect.0
2. coil..... coil spade on switch to coil.
3. accessories.... battery to key, center stud to "side two" of the block to key accessories (radio, heater, wiper, ect. ect)

Hope I have helped and not babbled to much.

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » August 25, 2008, 9:32 am

Jason.
Double check the center post.
It is hot in all key positions. So is the green wire with the three female gang plug. In fact, all 6 of the wires coming off the ignition switch are hot all the time except the one (I think its red/blue) that is energized only in the start position.
That is why I made the test bench and I did the check 6 or 7 times just to make sure I knew where things went.
Keep me posted on your progress and thanks for the information.
Skip

johnny · Post by **johnny** » August 25, 2008, 10:31 am

hey skip i understand the deal know good luck and let us know how it goes i would also go with nascar switches

Fanatic · Post by **Fanatic** » August 25, 2008, 5:55 pm

1990s Ford Truck fuse box !!!

Maxi & Mini fuses and relays all in one

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » August 25, 2008, 6:28 pm

Now that is an interesting arrangement. I just don't have EFI and it looks like overkill for me. But I could can a box like that at the cheap yard for about $5.00.
We'll see how it goes.
I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks on a job so if I don't respond to your questions, I'll get to them when I get back.
U@ss

jwh f-100 · Post by **jwh f-100** » August 26, 2008, 8:44 am

Uncle Skip wrote:Jason.
Double check the center post.
It is hot in all key positions. So is the green wire with the three female gang plug. In fact, all 6 of the wires coming off the ignition switch are hot all the time except the one (I think its red/blue) that is energized only in the start position.
That is why I made the test bench and I did the check 6 or 7 times just to make sure I knew where things went.
Keep me posted on your progress and thanks for the information.
Skip

Skip, You got me worried/curious about this. LOL. I went home and did some playing around. I still think when you are on accesory the "coil" spade is not hot BUT it sounds like Ford may have done something different with the swicth plug to make it work as you mentioned. I am not using the original plug..

I took a pic and a little video to show how my switch is working.

The 12ga. red wire with the yellow connector is the battery supply. The small red is on the acc stud ., the yellow is attached to the coil terminal, and the blue wire is hooked to the crank terminal.

I hooked each one to a test bulb. The bulbs are placed in the same order as the switch and you may see the wire colors leading to each one. The video starts with the key in acc. You will see just the one bulb lit. then to off, nothing lit. Then to run, acc. and coil lit. Finally to crank, just the coil and crank will be lit.. ( Sorry for the blue tape. I had to cover them otherwise it would have been a big blurr. LOL) Click on the pic below to view the video.

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » August 26, 2008, 6:32 pm

Ah, sunny Kansas.
FYI.
Given the fact that I"m going to rewire Nadine, I have absolutely no experience or expertise in electrical stuff (face it, electricity really is magic... the only reason it works is because we believe it will) I did some searching today for the load rating for various gauges of wires.
What I found was not what I expected.
On 12 volt systems (excluding really long runs of wire) the information shows the wires carry a lot more amperage than I expected.
And, bear in mind that most of our stock trucks run on less than 80 amps from the alternator to power everything in the truck.
Mine has a 130 amp 1 wire but even with all the extras I have, I doubt that I'm pulling anywhere near that under normal operation.

Constant use circuits might require one size bigger if you're at or close to the load rating. IE...... if your headlight circuit is pulling a full 20 amps and you have 16 gauge wire, you might want to go one size bigger and use 14 gauge wire.
(20 gauge is not good for much except maybe dash lights and such. Most every thing else is 18 gauge or bigger. I'm using it for my tach trigger and dash lights but thats about it.)
So, here is a "general" load rating for automotive wires.

20 ga. 8 amps
18 ga. 10 amps
16 ga. 20 amps
14 ga. 40 amps
12 ga. 60 amps
10 ga. 100 amps
8 ga. 150 amps (this one is a big mammy jammer wire and I doubt you'd use this unless you have one of those ghetto, sonic powered, ear shattering, glass breaking stereo systems, and then you'd wire it seperate from the rest of the truck.......)

If you're nervous about primary load, just run two 10 ga. wires to seperate terminals and split it up.
Just remember to use the proper fuse for your particular circuit use and you should be fine.
Hope this helps.
U@ss

truckerdaddy66 · Post by **truckerdaddy66** » August 29, 2008, 8:08 am

Hey Skip, I put in second fuse box for my extra stuff radio ,a/c ,ele, fans.mounted it on a little piece of aluminum with a termial strip. Ran 10 gauge wire to feed it . I used a heavy duty toggle switch to turn it off and on and a old ford fusiable link wire just in case. I hid it under dash so no one knows where it is but me.

Fred , New Caney, Tx.