CV suspension swap

billyt · Post by **billyt** » May 23, 2008, 8:48 am

Hi Guys,
I'm new to the club. I have a '65 Slick that I have already taken down to the bare frame. I have already c-notched the rear and will be going with ladder bars and coil-overs.

I'd really appreciate some help on the front end, though. I bought, then sold, some lowering I-beams as I just wasn't satisfied with the weight of the set-up as well as the heft of the crossmember involved.

In going through the posts, I see that several of you recommend a Crown Vic front suspension. Having never seen a CV front suspension up-close & personal (cops get real upset if you try to look under their cars!), has anyone done a series on installing the unit. It's aluminium? Does it bolt in? What frame modications are necessary?

Here's the kicker: I'm keeping the 300 I-6 and will be heading to the strip as well as the street with it.

I'd really appreciate your input and assistance. Also, any members in the Dallas/Fort Worth area?

Thanks!

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » May 23, 2008, 9:16 am

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71605 ... -f100.html

About the best thread out there.

Garbz

billyt · Post by **billyt** » May 23, 2008, 9:41 am

Thanks Garbz! just what I"ve been looking for!

helicorbin · Post by **helicorbin** » May 23, 2008, 9:36 pm

I went to the local junk yard lookin for cv front ends today, no luck!! ....But they had about 11 aerostar vans (the other swap) for 150 bucks, not bad but I'm still on the fence about the aerostar swap, it's gotta be better than volare or mustang 2 right? anybody have a couple thousand miles on aerostar?

Is Crown Vic the best way to go with air bags? I got discouraged from the dakota front end (you know dodge v/s ford thing, I gotta stay blue oval) ha-ha

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » May 23, 2008, 11:43 pm

Ok so install a suspension that has absoutley zero aftermarket support...as the late model crown vic. I have yet to see anyone have a CV on the road and proven 10000 miles or more. Its wide and requires huge negetave back space wheels. Makes a slick look like a 88 up C or K series chevy GMC or S-10 chevy

As for the Dakota it is merely a custom fabricated cross member and engineered for the specific trucks frame. With factory steel upper and lower A arms, which by the way are stamped by a subcontractor. probally the same one that stamps fords parts. And the Dakota can be had with absoutly no mopar parts. So the blue oval argument dont hold.

And current MII aftermarket kits use no ford parts, so that dont cut it either.

Garbz

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » May 24, 2008, 2:19 am

Garbz
What "DO" you think of the Aerostar swap and does anyone here have experience with this swap. I got a very close look at one today and I think it has a lot of merit and plan on aquiring one soon to put under my 62.
Any thoughts welcome. The only issue I see at this time is wheel lug spacing and that may be resolved with a different rotor with the correct spacing.
I am aware that this swap has been done but I would like to have some input from some one who has done it and how it has done over time, if there are issues other than install issues. That kind of information would be helpful.

helicorbin · Post by **helicorbin** » May 24, 2008, 12:08 pm

Garbz glad you mentioned offest , what should I go with?( I want the front IFS narrow enough to drive with the truck slammed and still make a 3 point turn, without an ugly high offset wheel).

you bring up a great point about after market support also, I was brain dead for a sec. .................would Dakota lower control arms work with that dakota cross member?

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » May 24, 2008, 6:22 pm

John has one in his 64. and will be driving it to slick stock 08. So we shall see how they work.

I have not seen anyone with one of these either in service for any legnth of time. only issue i see is a Slam is not in the cards with the Aerostar.

I am biased towards the Dakota as i used to fabricate them for Industrial Chassis, and have one installed in my uni with a 2 inch Z notch in the frame and 2" western chasis drop spindles.

Steve is watching the CV swap threads closley as it would be the catz ass if it were not so friggin wide.

IC is also in development of a new generation III hub to hub kit using coil overs and 1.25" upper and lower A arms. All new tooling and jigs are being developed to support the new unit. There will be no Dodge parts involved as everything will be readily avalible aftermarket stuff. Steve is building a one ton truck chassis with the dakota based materials for a top new body supplier for thier flagship haul truck.

Garbz

helicorbin · Post by **helicorbin** » May 25, 2008, 10:49 pm

Anybody ever tacked on an s-10 or toyota clip with bags?

Shawn F. · Post by **Shawn F.** » May 27, 2008, 9:55 pm

I think the Crown Vic is a nice setup. If it holds up under a cop car then it will be fine for a truck. Also Dakota may be nice but the darn crossmember kit is expensive!
I have a couple cop buddies looking for one for me and today one of them said they found a few that I can just take because they are going to the auction but supposedly if I wait until summer or after I can get one. Try a police auction or something else similar. Talk to some Sheriffs or officers in your area about it.

MrEvil · Post by **MrEvil** » June 1, 2008, 10:28 pm

I'm liking this crown vic swap alot more than the alternatives. I'm not much of a welder and neither is my old man. It seems to me that this particular swap is awfully hard to screw up since you don't have to do much if any cutting on the frame and any welding done reinforces the frame rails (assuming one takes the neccessary step of boxing their frame rails). Plus getting the parts isn't too expensive if you find a cheap cop car from a police auction.

I don't see how reliability of this swap can come into question since it's more of a bolt-on swap than the alternatives. This front end has seen millions of miles in police and taxi service and I don't hear too many complaints or recalls.

Shawn F. · Post by **Shawn F.** » June 3, 2008, 12:38 am

I just say, do your research and if you like it then go for it. I'd box the frame in for sure, along with the sleeves for the bolts and then you need to weld brackets for the lower control arm (trailing arm). Supposedly the hardest part is cutting the old crossmember out and keeping the correct angles on the new one.

GDG · Post by **GDG** » June 3, 2008, 7:05 am

The only downside I see to the CVPI swap is that you are limited on wheel selection, I am happy with the Bullitt wheels but if you are after the reversed wheel look you are screwed. Think about the wheels before you lock yourself in. That thing has some very high rate frt springs and a killer stab bar. I'm thinking it will really handle good.
I'm recovering from knee replacement surgery now, it's good to get away from all that sanding. I'm still hoping to get it painted this summer, another week or two and I'll hit the longboard again!!
Doug

Shawn F. · Post by **Shawn F.** » June 3, 2008, 1:56 pm

Yes I hear the front is a bit too wide but I do not like deep dish front wheels, only in the rear. I like to have them offset to where the front have very little dish and the back has a lot.

MrEvil · Post by **MrEvil** » June 7, 2008, 3:52 pm

GDG wrote:The only downside I see to the CVPI swap is that you are limited on wheel selection, I am happy with the Bullitt wheels but if you are after the reversed wheel look you are screwed. Think about the wheels before you lock yourself in. That thing has some very high rate frt springs and a killer stab bar. I'm thinking it will really handle good.
I'm recovering from knee replacement surgery now, it's good to get away from all that sanding. I'm still hoping to get it painted this summer, another week or two and I'll hit the longboard again!!
Doug

It's been a while since I've looked at a slick with front fenders on it, but depending on how wide our fenders are and how much the wheels want to go up into the fenders, a lower offset wheel might work. The offset on 03+ panther wheels is 50mm and on those cars one can go as low as 40mm. A wheel with 0mm offset would only stick out 2" further.

JFCDeuce · Post by **JFCDeuce** » June 7, 2008, 4:54 pm

If I remember correctly from mocking up my truck, a 62 staight axle was approx. 62" hub to hub (measured at the mounting surface) The 04 CV front end is 67.5". Thats 2.75" more on either side. with a standard centered 15x5.5 for example, the offset would have to move to be flush with the curb side of the wheel
( a 1?x8" gives you .75" in from the curb side still a very high offset.

Than you have to match the rear (I measured 60" brake surface to brake surface... to match up wheel tracks I'd need 4" wheel adapters on my stock 9" or a matching deep dish wheel (15x9 at least) (or a combination of both)

I'll be using a cv rear axle, paybe an earlier model if I can find the matchin wheels I need. for not too much money.

Remeber, the parts for a cv front end are less expensive than most other options, but there are sacrifices to it, and a lot of other things you'll need to consider. If i didn't swap my front end I wouldn't need a new rearend to match up. most aftermarket front-end kits come with a 5 on 5.5" both patern option... no now wheels involved, they don't have 12" discs, again no need for new wheels etc. There is no aftermarket support for setting up my steering... that's going to be great fun. Motor mounts need to be located firht where I welded in my shock tower both supports... I'm having to custom build mounts that mount to the CV bolt holes. I'll be puting in a lit more time than my buddy who did it in a weekend with a TCI kit. although it cost him 2800 bucks.
I'm hopunt to be in only about 1500 by the time I'm done (which does include the rear end ant wheels etc) But a lot of time.

billyt · Post by **billyt** » June 20, 2008, 7:58 pm

OK Guys,

Sounds like we have some conflicting information. CarCrafter22 who is actually doing the CV swap had this to say:

"1. The track width is about the same as the original I think there is about a 0.1 difference between them so its not worth worrying about. "

A review of CarCrafter22's photos indicate that the track difference is minimal at best, although I was unable to determine the actual distance from the hub flange to the inner edge of the fender.

Whereas JFCDeuce noted that there is 2.75" track difference PER SIDE . That is quite a difference!

So... which is it?

If CarCrafter22 or anyone else who has done this swap would be kind enough to supple some actual specs to the swap, I think we can lay this issue to rest.

As far as the rear axle goes, the market is flooded with 5x4.5" rims, and a 9" axles and drums can always be redrilled for this pattern. And there are plently of disc brack conversions out there (or build your own).

Thanks to all for your input.

JFCDeuce · Post by **JFCDeuce** » July 5, 2008, 9:55 pm

"Track width" is a measurement center to center of you tire's treads. It will change depending on wheel offset etc. The 04 CV front end that IS ON my truck is 67.5" from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface on the rotors. (my stock straight axle is 62") My track width is nearly the same by running much more modern wheel with a high positive offset. In fact outside of tire to outside of tire is nearly the same as my 15x7 with a -.5" offset Fentons as with the 17x8 mustang wheels with a +1.8" Offset

johnny · Post by **johnny** » July 6, 2008, 12:09 am

it must be a west cost thing but it seems no one cares for fatman etc... MII front ends! they have power racks/ stainless double a arms and 11 inch brakes w/5on4.5 bolt pattern and dropped spindles very strong and have never had a problem in 3 years with mine

John

JFCDeuce · Post by **JFCDeuce** » July 6, 2008, 7:00 pm

I like the fatman set up. For me the CV set up has been about the project and the experience. I'm building/learning/ etc, all with something that has been rarely done at this point (although it seems to be gaining in popularity quickly) Generally I feel I'll save a bit of money, at least with the initial 1000 differnce in cost, but it's about talking with people sharing ideas and info and have to come together to figure out all the best ways to bolt it, weld it, support it etc, since we're not paying for an engineer and a cad guy to put together the plans.
It'll have it issues and concerns, but all in all I'm doing because I enjoy the process.

PS: nice looking truck.