How many with 5.0/HO

dotcentral · Post by **dotcentral** » April 7, 2009, 9:57 pm

How many here are running a fox mustang 5.0 (302) HO, with the Ford EFI hooked to it?

Thinking about going this route, with an AOD, on my 66.

61 Merc · Post by **61 Merc** » April 7, 2009, 10:32 pm

Not running a 5.0L but I am running a 5.8L with EFI system, if you can get the wiring harness from an F150, it would wire in real easy. I am also running a C6, but would like a AOD.

Dean

JFCDeuce · Post by **JFCDeuce** » April 8, 2009, 1:37 am

61 Merc wrote:Not running a 5.0L but I am running a 5.8L with EFI system, if you can get the wiring harness from an F150, it would wire in real easy. I am also running a C6, but would like a AOD.

Dean

I may go thet route in the future, I am picking up a free '88 fox body with 5.0 and t-5 from a woman at who's husband who just wants it gone. Maybe a tinkering long build and eventually I'll swap it in. Although I'm currently digging my freshly built 289 (650CFM 4bbl, intake, RV cam and milled '69 351W heads.) It makes a lot of noise.

PFM-64f100 · Post by **PFM-64f100** » April 8, 2009, 8:25 am

Dave (wolfe) has a 5.0L EFI with an AOD in his 63 truck. He bought a new wire harness for the EFI setup and that made it easy. http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=4 The motor is acutally a 302 from a 71 Torino with the intake system from a Tbird, with the serpertine setup.

It fits good and runs good also. With the AOD you have to make sure you get the kick down cable set correctly or you will burn up the tranny. If you get the orginal cable from the doner you just have to install it with out adjustments. Any decent tranny shop should be able to set the cable if you go with a new one.

He doesn't have any picture posted to his web page of it but if you want some let me know. Not like the truck is sitting behind my shop or anything like that...(lots of sarcasum there

)...

Maybe that will get him to chime in here. He lurks a lot around here...

SNEWTON · Post by **SNEWTON** » April 8, 2009, 8:25 am

I have a 94 351w with harness, how hard of install was it and what computer did you use, how did you handle the return to the tank, any information appreciated, have a 66 with 240 six, also a 76 parts truck 302
thanks

Post by **Greg D** » April 8, 2009, 9:29 am

Fanatic has one also. This is a near ideal setup for a vehicle this weight using the 5.0 HO engine, it has just enough more torque than the flat tappet engine to work well. Decent performance, dead reliable, easy to take care of, good sound, and decent fuel mileage so you can afford to drive pretty much as much as you want.

FORDBOYpete · Post by **FORDBOYpete** » April 8, 2009, 9:42 am

SNEWTON,

You do not have to run the return back to your tank. You can loop your return in your engine bay.

That way you can eliminate an In-tank HI PSI pump, use a HV - low PSI pump with larger diameter, fuel line to maintain
sufficient fuel in reservoir. Put High PSI pump on output side of reservior, pressure regulator on return/ input side.
The Fuel line from tank feeds into reservior maintaining neutral pressure. HI PSI exists only in fuel rails & return line
to Regulator. We are talking 5 or 6 feet total High PSI Run.

All return lines do is "Bleed Off" excess PSI & Fuel your injectors do not use. No need to send it to rear of vehicle,
send it to container near engine. BUT. Use Impact switch, to cut power to both Lo & Hi PSI pumps in interest of safety.
Also if you a race, make underhood reservoir with a Cool-Can in it. Just be sure plumbing you add for loop is capable
of handling more fuel than the system can ever consume.

If you're really into this, use the BSFC* Formula to engineer your closed loop system. There are many advantages
to what I suggest. There are some new pitfalls too. But I will tell you it's well worth it & not hard to do.

*BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption.
Brake Specific Fuel Consumption will tell you a quantity of fuel in pounds per hour it takes to do a specified amount of
"work" with a set amount of Horsepower. Electronic Injectors are rated Lbs/Hr because BSFC uses the Logrhythms of
BSFC to calculate that figure.

You can then calculate line & reservior sizes /volumes needed to handle quantities in Lbs /hr your set up will take.
If you are unfamiliar with BSFC you can Google it and become educated.

There are profound differences with using short retrun loop. Biggest is the pumping required, but there's plumbing,
performance, monitoring system activity, not pushing fuel @ 40 -45 lbs full length between tank & engine X2 & so forth.

I've an '88 LSC 5.0L HO roller engine in a '85 T-Bird elan'. I'm convinced MAFS logic run by an OBD I PCM system
is the best way to go. When it's done it will be OBD I with a chip & a few other tweaks. I'm not fond of OBD II,
altho it can be made to work. Systems like Speed Desntiy from trucks, or SEFI's leave a lot to be desired IMHO.

It's not Alien it's just something newer & unfamiliar, BUT that's only at 1st. After a while EFI actually is really pretty
easy and simple to understand.

Good Luck with it.

FBp

DCarr · Post by **DCarr** » April 8, 2009, 11:02 am

By the way,Snewton- Welcome from ElCajon!

.Thought you snuck in there,didn't you.

FBP-good info on the EFI. I never considered a short return before,opens up some good possibilities.

deviant1 · Post by **deviant1** » April 8, 2009, 11:49 am

from Alabama.

Post by **Greg D** » April 8, 2009, 12:22 pm

Brilliantly simple Pete, I never thought of a short return system but it could have huge advantages adapting EFI into older vehicles. Like FBP says the SEFI systems can seem pretty intimidating at first but once you learn them they are in some ways simpler than a carburetor because of the lineal consistency which no matter how well it's tuned is still a series of compromises. The efficiency cannot be argued with.
BTW, Welcome to Slick 60s.

FORDMANLCRACKEL · Post by **FORDMANLCRACKEL** » April 8, 2009, 7:55 pm

I just drug a 89 E150 that has a 351 EFI/AOD for $300 dollars and it runs good. The van was wrecked. I have know idea when i will start the install.

Lonnie

FORDBOYpete · Post by **FORDBOYpete** » April 8, 2009, 8:47 pm

Greg,

Thanks, but I only shared somebody elses idea with you guys.

I didn't think of it, I read about it in Superford Magazine back when they were still in business.
I had this problem when I carried my front wheels. I'd get a burble at apogee it was like fidgity,
then when it came back to earth it would stumble slightly.
It was like float bowl slosh, except I was running a SEFI on a built 5.0L based engine.
There was no carb. Float slosh was not possible, but that's what it felt like to me.
I read an article where a guy remedied my problem by using the short loop return set up
all within his engine bay. Wow, what a neat idea. I put that in mine and both my problems quit instantly.

On a hard launch the front wheels come up so the intank pump must actually pump fuel up hill to the engine.
As I launch I increase my G forces making 15 feet of fuel heavier by what ever G Force I hit. So I got to pump
Hi PSI fuel uphill as it gets heavier. When I touch down & "G" Force fades I get a sudden change in forces and
the intank pump senses too much fuel PSI, so it stumbles until it stabilizes itself out. I waste .5 sec while it fiddles around.

With a short loop the fuel is already at my engine, so is my HO PSI Pump, and return tank too. Suddenly what was
14- 15 ft run with tank at rear of my mustang became a 48" loop around my fuelrails up in my engine bay.
If I had to elevate fuel at all it may have been 14 or 15 inches, not feet. So my PSI was steady, and I had no G forces
pulling against a fuel column in my fuel line. Qwikest and by far easiest 5/10ths of a sec I ever gained. . . .

So I want to share what I learned but I do not deserve any credit for the idea, It's not mine. I'll say tho', as I read that
article I just knew it was the solution I had been looking for and it was. I got the .5sec 1st time out. The other comment
I made about BSFC is an education also. If you can grasp the theory then you can tweak your set up with an edge.
Like "Uncle Fred" told me quite a while ago, take every advantage you can get & keep lookin' for more, you'll win every time.

Uncle Fred was a machinists mate on a Destroyer Escort in WW II. He was stationed in San Diego. His WW II photos
were the LA Roadster Club, Dry Lakes running, guys like Ed Isky, Clay Smith, Vic Edelbrock. They were kids or
young guys on his albums and he brought SoCal Hot Rodding home when he returned in 1945. . . . When caddy
brought out their OHV V8 in 1949, I watched/helped handed tools as Uncle Fred put it, a LAsalle 3gear and a
Columbia 2spd rear in his 36 Ford Phaeton in winter of 1949-1950. People were convinced he lost his marbles in the war.
Not So I tell you, he brought the future home and they were to unaware to understand that. . . .

He was a hot rodder on the leading edge back then. And a right good teacher too. . . .

FBp

61 Merc · Post by **61 Merc** » April 9, 2009, 12:17 am

When I did the install, I used the factory computer and mounted it in the firewall near where the original wiring harness goes through the wall. It was the best place for it. I then used all the wiring from the 88 F150 and even in the cab the wiring fit nicely, although I did shorten it.

For the fuel system, I have a rear mounted tank from about an 83 LTD, and I put a low pressure fuel pump at the tank, then I put the filter and the high pressure pump on the frame rail beside the tranny. I used the factory fuel lines from the 88, where possible. The 88 had plastic lines which worked out well. The 88 also had duel tanks, and I will be installing a secondary tank this spring.

I will get some pictures soon, once I have a chance to wash the dust off the truck.

Dean

itsmywifestruck · Post by **itsmywifestruck** » April 10, 2009, 1:55 pm

Has anyone installed a 5.0 out of an explorer? I don't know how different it would be. It is obd2, and also uses a distributorless ignition system...

ROb

Post by **Greg D** » April 10, 2009, 2:01 pm

Except for the obvious external differences (headers, ignition, and tranny) the Explorer 5.0 is the Mustang engine but with better heads & intake.

itsmywifestruck · Post by **itsmywifestruck** » April 10, 2009, 3:12 pm

That is what I am thinking. I have a complete explorer, and I think I am gonna give it a shot...

ROb

PFM-64f100 · Post by **PFM-64f100** » April 10, 2009, 4:05 pm

If you have the whole explorer it should be easy enough.. get the complete EFI harness and add in some power relays all should be good. You will have to upgrade the fuel system to EFI pressure (30 to 50 psi) with return but that's an easy tasks with a Bronco II tank. see fordfuleinjection.com for wiring pin outs I do remeber seeing some stuff on odbII computers there. Keep us updated.

Fanatic · Post by **Fanatic** » April 10, 2009, 6:37 pm

My 5.0 is a OBD2 system from a 96 F150. I wired it myself with the help of GOOD wiring diagrams and research. I used a underhood fuse box from a truck and rewired the whole truck thru it. I also wired in the 4R70W trans and a fully electronic instrument cluster from a T-bird.
If ya have any questions...I'll try to help out.

Tim

itsmywifestruck · Post by **itsmywifestruck** » April 12, 2009, 9:48 am

I think I am gonna try and use the fuel tank out of the explorer. Got to flip it over and measure the thing and see if it will fit. I looked on fordfuelinjection.com and didn't see anything specifically about the explorer motors. I don't know how different they are with the Distributorless ignition. I will look again for the obd2 stuff. Those motors are sposed to be pretty sweet. Found the actual horsepower is 210, and like 280 torque. The thing also has a 3.73 posi disc brake rear, with a rear sway bar. Looks like I have much parts pulling to do

ROb

bluebolt · Post by **bluebolt** » April 12, 2009, 11:16 am

The Explorer V8 electronic system is pretty complicated especially the later ones with PATS. I would get rid of the distributerless ignition and install a regular 1989-1993 Mustang 5.0 distributor, mass air sensor, computer and a RJM harness.

How many with 5.0/HO

How many with 5.0/HO

61 MERC 351W

Explorer V8